2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

20:24 Be glad too... these are all older vehicles, domestics as well as imports, so you guys can't use the excuse that the newer models were better.. I have no bias, just reporting the facts.

Domestics-

1. 1979 Chevy Malibu with 267 cu. inch V-8. This might have been the worst engine I ever had, tied with the Ranger for worst. It got horrible gas mileage, produced nothing when it comes to horsepower and torque, overheated regularly and burned what seemed like as much oil as it did gasoline. Bought with 60,000 original miles. Kept it for 15 years with the intent of keeping it as a classic, but literally worked on it more than I drove it. Nice looking car, typical Chevy junk.

2. 1980 Buick Century with 3.8 V-6. Truly, not a bad car other than bad gas mileage. Fairly reliable, good power for a V-6.

3. 1987 Ford Ranger, V-6. Worst pile of Ford garbage I've ever owned. I can't even remember all the repairs... all 4 wheel bearings, replaced literally every sensor in it, overheated, transmission (standard) devoured itself, rear differential locked the rear wheels up TWICE, heater didn't work, burned oil, water pump died... it was about 5 years old when I bought it with 90,000 on it and it was already dead in the water. No excuse for it, Ford fans. Sorry...junk.

4. 1995 Dodge Dakota 318 v-8. Again, not a bad engine. Starter replaced at around 90,000, transmission (auto) started leaking fluid at 100,000, gas mileage was pathetic. Around 15 mpg at best, much less when hauling a small trailer to camp. Body rusted very prematurely, and I wash and wax regularly, hose out the undercarriage also. Crappy sheet metal from Dodge. My LAST domestic. Finally wised up.

Imports:

1. 1993 Toyota Tercel. Absolutely perfect. Bought with 60,000 miles on it, no repairs. Beat the hell out of it, never missed a beat, 40 miles per gallon regularly with Toyota's 1.5 liter 4 cylinder. Perfect car.

2. Sold the Tercel for 4 wheel drive; 1995 Toyota Truck (before they were called Tacoma's). Absolutely perfect, of course. Had the 22re engine, and nobody but Honda has made one as well. Zero repairs, great on the road, much better off the road.

3. 1998 Toyota Tacoma. Another perfect vehicle, 3.4 liter V-6. Capable of towing just about as much as the Dakota, except got 10 more miles per gallon on the highway. I've done as well as 24 mpg on the highway. Recently sold it back to Toyota for way more than I paid for it due to the frame rust issue. Now this is where I usually get attacked... "how can you say it was perfect if the frame rusted?"... Well, that was not the fault of Toyota. Mechanically, it was perfect. The lucky part for me is that Toyota made it and not Ford or Chevy, because they wouldn't have compensated me for the problem nearly as well as Toyota did, if at all. I'd probably be stuck with a truck with a rusted frame and part of one of the many class action lawsuits against the Big 3. Toyota backed up their product when Ford and GM never would have, or not nearly as well for certain.

When I buy 4 domestics and 3 of them are absolute junk, I'm done buying them. When I buy 3 Toyota's, and all of them are mechanically perfect, I will continue to buy them. The math seems simple to me. Buy what keeps running and lasts. Toyota, not Ford, Chevy, or Dodge.

2.

Not 1 full size truck.

Just as I (and all the others reading this site) had expected. Not a single NEW domestic, or a single full sized truck. Your previous comment CLEARLY STATES you've bought NEW and used domestics. If that statement is incorrect, how reliable can we expect your others to be?? A used and abused ancient domestic is a poor comparison to a NEW full sized truck, and you've owned so few vehicles that any accurate comparison is impossible.

We've owned 17 domestics that WERE purchased brand new. Not a single problem with ANY of them, and the first one was purchased in 1972. That puts the lie to "the older ones were garbage" argument as well. Our 70's and 80's domestics were also flawless, just as our 2007 is.

We'll keep supporting our country and our industry by buying from U.S. companies.

23:26 Wasn't your Dakota actually totaled in an accident based on prior comments? One of your domestics was bought at 90,000 miles and yet another with 60,000 miles.

I would have asked for service records, maybe the oil filter was never changed or driven hard to be oil burners.

My work has a 2001 Dakota with 200,000 miles, and a 2003 Durango with 245,000 miles on them, mostly highway but not oil burners. I have a relative with a nice 1995 Century has been flawless as well.

My comment is having 6 or 7 vehicles total, and most not bought new, and none are full size trucks, nonetheless to condemn any. If your experience ranges from mid 80's to 1998, there's 11 years after that. In that time span I have seen imports that we bought new until lately become satisfactory from being exceptional to lousy. And they were bought new.

It's nice Toyota was kind enough to buy a vehicle out with a rotted frame, perhaps that was cheaper than the alternative.

I have had domestics that I made out big time, that appreciated with notes wanting to buy under the windshield often.

... and as we see from today's news that Mr Wagoner has been forced to step down and Chrysler has only one option - to team up with Fiat (pathetic) or be sold, that the big three domestic car makers are doing a FANTASTIC job...

"... and as we see from today's news that Mr Wagoner has been forced to step down and Chrysler has only one option - to team up with Fiat (pathetic) or be sold, that the big three domestic car makers are doing a FANTASTIC job...'

The Seoul-based automaker (Hyundai) has boosted sales in the U.S. where demand for Toyotas models has PLUNGED..." (USA Today, March 30, 2009.

Virtually ALL cars are suffering huge sales losses (except Hyundai). Poor sales has NOTHING To do with car quality and everything to do with the economy. Hyundai is doing well because it makes both fuel-efficient, affordable cars and the top luxury car in the market (Genesis) at a bargain-basement price.

My boat is too valuable to tow with a Tercel with a hitch.

Okay guys, why not take this debate into another (just as pointless) direction. Ginger or Mary Ann?

"I have had domestics that I made out big time, that appreciated with notes wanting to buy under the windshield often."

All you have to do is look on Craigslist or your local paper and compare what the asking prices are for Toyotas and Hondas versus anything the big three make. More often than not, 3 and 4 year old Toyotas will be maybe 75%-80% of their price from new. But I know for fact that the equivalent Domestic model is always at a severe discount. I've personally seen used 2 year old fully loaded Chevy Silverados and F-150's with lesser asking prices than a stripped 4 cylinder Tacoma. In fact, some domestic trucks these days are so cheap it's almost convincing to buy just because some of them are sitting with prices that are 50% or more cheaper than a Toyota. Dealers and sellers obviously can't hardly give them away.

And in regards to cars... all I have to say is Ford Taurus. Those cars are totally worthless as soon as they leave the lot.

10:44 When I shop for a new full size truck, it does not matter if Chrysler is owned by Benz, Fiat or whomever is signing the checks this week or in office.

The Ram is a great full size truck and I would recommend them without hesitation for towing especially. Also Silverado and Ford F Series.

What does escape me is how someone can condemn an entire manufacturer that:

#1 Does not now or ever has owned/lived with a full size truck

#2 The vehicles that were owned are 11-20 years ago, most purchased with 60-90,000 miles on the odometer. I buy new and maintain my own since purchase. It would be similar to taking a chance buying a rental car with 90,000 miles on a vehicle from the day you got it... could have had an easy life or many wannabe race car drivers.

#3 There is never acknowledgment it switches quickly over to a political comment when there is no vague reply available.

The number one reason I buy a full size truck is applications for one... load carrying, towing functionality. Unless you have a true application and have invested in a new or late model full size, this seems to escape the small car/small truck mentality. To comment on one, how about acknowledging why people have them vs. who is in office, who owns whom etc. I know I have many more features, applications addressed and far superior warranty than Tundra and Tacoma is not in the same category. Your warranty is safe commented 3-30 by President Obama if you need to be political. I go in test and buy my vehicles as no one pays for mine except me anyway.

11:36 Exactly right. Not a single new domestic. Because they proved to me to be junk years ago, so I stopped buying them. As I expected, Ford and Chevy fans expect me to rush out and buy a new domestic because they've 'improved' so much. Heck, they might even be approaching the kind of quality that Toyota had 25 years ago... no thanks. Instead of gambling my money, I'll keep buying what I KNOW is a quality vehicle... Toyota.

Granted, I chose to gamble again, and bought a Hyundai after I sold my Tacoma back to Toyota; we'll see how that pays off. So far, much more reliable than any of my domestics ever were. Ford may be improving, they MIGHT even be a good car now. When I'm sure that they are, and they prove it with a 20 or 30 year history of STAYING good, like Toyota has, I might consider buying one. Not now, and not for a long time. I know what junk they've always been to date.

To another commenter, yes, my Dakota was totaled. I'm not sure what that has to do with anything; I said that the 318 was a RELIABLE engine. Not even approached Toyota quality, or efficiency though. Clearly not enough research and design. Other than that, the truck was crappy. '95 Dakotas were notorious for bad automatic transmissions, and as I said, the sheet metal was garbage.

With ALL of my Toyota's, everything was practically perfect. Best engines in the world (along with Honda), no transmission or rust issues, extremely efficient, even much better wear of the interior knobs/switches and fabric. Toyota is just superior in all aspects, unless you need to tow something that you'd need an F-350 for. Toyota doesn't make them, because they're not financially productive. Just part of the reason that they're doing well while GM and Dodge are nearly finished, and Ford hangs in the balance.

I love it how government politicians, who never produced anything in their lives and cannot even run their own budget without trillions of dollars worth of deficits, are now trying to tell the car companies how to run their businesses. That is asinine. Welcome to nationalized industry, which was so obviously the devious intention of these "bailouts" all along. It is not the government's place to get involved in these types of things in ANY capacity. I hope everyone is seeing the true colors of our politicians.

What's totally ridiculous about this argument is that even now, with the entire US auto industry very likely close to bankruptcy, pro domestic guys STILL think that everything these companies did was perfect, and that despite the fact that these same companies never truly came close to matching Toyota or Honda on quality, continue to be confused and angry that others have pretty much written the big three off years ago.

They build JUNK. Plain and simple. Sure - they might make a few "recommended" cars here and there, and I'm also sure there's at least a few Chevy Vegas with 300,000 miles. But overall, the big three have been poorly managed, poorly run, and the products they make have been totally manufactured with corner cutting techniques for so long that the big three does not know how to build a decent car or truck for that matter.

Now despite what pro-domestic guys think, I'm totally all for a GOOD American car company. For example - a car company in California called Tesla is getting ready to build an all-electric family sedan that actually looks good and goes 300 miles per charge. Now THAT's the kind of car the big three should be building. But instead they never weaned themselves off of big trucks and SUV's. That goes hand in hand with the comment I hear on here all the time: " Small car/truck mentality" Call it what you want, but "Big car/truck mentality" obviously doesn't make car companies ultimately successful.

But the bottom line is the big three are failing for a reason, and it isn't from building good products. Sorry.

"Poor sales has NOTHING To do with car quality and everything to do with the economy. Hyundai is doing well because it makes both fuel-efficient, affordable cars and the top luxury car in the market (Genesis) at a bargain-basement price."

That's part of it, but the bigger issue is that Hyundai has their risk-free purchase program. If you lose your job, they'll take the car back. That assurance in this economy is what has really made up much of their sales performance.

22:47 "Exactly right not one new domestic"

Should have been "I have never owned one single new or old full size truck domestic or import." Ever.

With that being understood, it's easy to see the reiterating with small car/small truck economy lack of understanding of why individuals own full size models. To then say Toyota has addressed it all is incorrect, and to jump to the F-350 extreme is still not the answer either.

If you want to devote so much time on a full size truck review, at least understand why people buy them. It's not just price or how cheap. It's applications, function and usage being addressed.

The number one vehicle sold in America for over 20 years has not been cars, but full size trucks. There may be those that worry over depreciation, usually those that are economy vehicle oriented. I do not, and my friends as well do not feel that as the utmost concern. It's capability, strength and dependable service with a strong written warranty in place.

What I tow is more expensive and depreciates more rapidly than my truck. Is it worth it? My family thinks so... it's fun, time together and quality of life worth every penny.

I enjoy my full size truck much as perhaps you do with a small model in a different way. You off road empty. I never will, but you like it.

Putting a dollar and cent value on everything you do limits a great deal of quality ownership, features and benefits of full size truck ownership. Maybe some day you may own one and maybe it will be a Tundra so as to minimize the "Toyota" comment, which can be everything from a Yaris to a truck.

The Tundra is too small for us, and we do not own a F-350 class either. The great ongoing political debate goes on and on... I would rather hook up my nice new full size truck and have fun as a family. Maybe others on here can share why they invested and own a 2009 full size truck on here and get off the small car/small truck kick.