2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

What does one do when they drive a $1000 vehicle that needs a $3-4000 transmission or engine? Then say they were foolish enough, it's a crap shoot on every other component with equally aged components... suspension, braking, cooling, electronics even if you have few power options. I tried this theory and failed miserably... air conditioning, heater core flooded the cab next. Add in being late to work or not making it home...

And still if you buy a Tacoma 1998 with over 200,000 miles, when are you going to address never being a full size truck ever. The economy only theory on here is pointless on a full size truck review. Some on here have worked smart and do not want a beater. I drive 30,000 miles a year and am not a proponent of this false economy... I want a newer example with a warranty/loaner, am not pulling engines and trans and dealing with expensive parts, A/C failures, electronics, heater cores again.

I tried this hanging onto my Nissan too long, but I am sure other imports share being a high mileage low value vehicle - one major repair and you're out a vehicle. Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it.

"You ARE helping the economy by buying ANYTHING. Even though I'd never dream of stabbing my country in the back by buying a NEW import"

Once more, people like me - who are from other states where Toyota and Nissan have large plants, in my case Tennessee and our neighbors in KY, don't really care about the states of Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, or the rest of the rust belt states, which have been in decline for decades. Toyota, Honda and Nissan actually make major strides to take care of their employees, regardless of nation, and as such have been great for our state's economies. So when I buy a Toyota, I'm helping people that I know who live in states that I care about. Honestly, I could care less about Michigan. Sorry.

"Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it."

I think you're misunderstanding a few things here. First of all, I've kept my truck for 14 years so far and so far has had no major problems. All told, I spend perhaps less than $200 a year on repairs, and of these, most are redundant items like spark plugs, air filters, plug wires, and so forth. Like I said before, the truck is in fantastic mechanical condition and I would trust this truck to go anywhere, night or day, short trip or long trip.

A mechanical device is easy to monitor. Just because something gets old doesn't mean it's automatically going to become problematic. Age in regard to a mechanical thing is only incidental. I've seen some cars that have 80,000 miles that run and look awful. Likewise I've seen some that have 300,000 that look and run like new. It all depends on how well that car or truck was treated.

But I have my own way of driving and determining when the time to replace a vehicle is appropriate. As I said before, I am 31 years old and have significant savings in cash and retirement, not because I make tons of money, but because I don't think in black and white terms when it comes to buying stuff, which ultimately means debt, I have saved more than even the typical 50 year old mainly because most people are bad with their money and waste it buying the latest-greatest cars and trucks just because they have seat warmers and "safety". You want to know what the greatest safety device a car could have? The driver.

But you're free to keep buying cars and trucks every few years if you want. To each their own.

"11th Apr 2009, 17:36.

What does one do when they drive a $1000 vehicle that needs a $3-4000 transmission or engine? Then say they were foolish enough, it's a crap shoot on every other component with equally aged components... suspension, braking, cooling, electronics even if you have few power options. I tried this theory and failed miserably... air conditioning, heater core flooded the cab next. Add in being late to work or not making it home...

And still if you buy a Tacoma 1998 with over 200,000 miles, when are you going to address never being a full size truck ever. The economy only theory on here is pointless on a full size truck review. Some on here have worked smart and do not want a beater. I drive 30,000 miles a year and am not a proponent of this false economy... I want a newer example with a warranty/loaner, am not pulling engines and trans and dealing with expensive parts, A/C failures, electronics, heater cores again.

I tried this hanging onto my Nissan too long, but I am sure other imports share being a high mileage low value vehicle - one major repair and you're out a vehicle. Senseless to spend more than they are worth fixing. Then add the resultant headache being broke down, safety issues out on a desolate road at night and whatever else you are carrying/towing. Not worth it."

It depends on how you define "worth." When you decide to drive an old car, it means that you are not a slave to used car "value" which is only important when you get caught in the trap of trading in every four years. It doesn't matter if you only paid $1,000 for the vehicle. It has "value" so long as it continues to move under its own power and serve its function of transportation. Its value is defined in terms of how much money you save every month on a car payment. If you had a vehicle that ran and drove, but was only "worth" $50, and it needed a new alternator for $60, would you seriously junk it and decide to make a $500 car payment? Now which method is "not worth it?" Your example of spending $4,000 on an old $1,000 beater is extreme. No, of course you wouldn't spend that on that car. You would go buy another $1,000 car and drive it for 2-3 years.

12:29 with the mechanical complexity of vehicles today, unless its very minor... I would say most are better off checking fluids, fixing a flat and that's the extent of that.

I suspect your repair comments are specific to a very small truck 4 cylinder perhaps? If you had a V8 larger Tundra I suspect you might amplify your expenditures annually. I doubt you tow or carry loads, which does factor into the wear and tear. I would like to see the Tundra owner that tows a larger travel trailer and keeps it for 14 years and see the actual expenditures. Do they match to yours? Theres not enough comments on here to inform us. It's who's in office, the economy, multiple car and it seems like I have read more about Tacomas than Tundras. Maybe the Tundra owner can hold out for 14 years keep towing and add up his costs for us. Anyone price a Tundra engine or trans out of warranty?

Again, I'm really not sure why the idea of keeping a vehicle - any vehicle - for as long as possible is such a financial mystery here. Money is money. In all of the cars and trucks that I've owned, none - and I mean NONE - have had to have any major repairs. No pulling engines or transmissions here or there. The most major "repair" I've had was on my Tacoma, which was really more like routine maintenance was when the clutch was replaced, and that was after the original wore out at 210,000 miles. I did it myself with the help of a friend. The replacement parts were a total of $275 and it took us 2 hours to do the job. Like I said before, the truck is very easy to work on, which ultimately saves time.

But on the other hand, this same friend of mine was also going to help another friend the next day with his 5 year old Ford F-350. It has an impossibly complicated transmission and has been in for major repairs at least 3 times thus far, each trip costing anywhere from $800 - $3,000. The solenoids and valves within the transmission have a tendency of getting stuck, requiring a total dismantle of the entire transmission to remedy. The truck has less than 80,000 miles yet it's a nightmare to own and is eating the owner's wallet alive. If buying something newer and more technically complex is deemed superior, then examples like these don't prove the notion.

Getting back to what I have been trying to communicate. You figure that an average truck today will set you back close to $20,000. If you keep that truck for 20 years and have nothing more than brake pads and the occasional starter motor or clutch to replace versus buying a new truck every 5 years, there is no way that you would even come close to saving what the person who kept their truck for 20 years did. It is mathematically impossible.

Of course, then again if you've owned Fords and Chevys, which in many cases do tend to start having major problems after 5-6 years, then perhaps that would explain the reasoning behind buying something new before they fall apart. I've never worried about this with any Toyota I've owned. They might get old, but they stay running reliably and solidly for long past the typical useful life of your average Ford or Chevy.

But to perhaps throw out one more suggestion, if you want to save money over the long term, it's well worth simply learning how to work on your own vehicles. All in all, it really isn't all that hard. I have basic tools and yet I've done all of the maintenance and repairs on all 3 cars and trucks I own, and they have never been at an actual repair shop. It doesn't matter how old or new a vehicle is. They were built by people and can also be repaired by people. Get a shop manual and learn how your vehicle is out together.

Lastly, my Father does in fact own a Tundra (a 2002 model) and uses it for "real" work, hauling a trailer full of concrete pumping equipment every workday. It has almost 220,000 miles on it, and just like my Tacoma has required little to no mechanical repair.

"So when I buy a Toyota, I'm helping people that I know who live in states that I care about. Honestly, I could care less about Michigan. Sorry."

Sure. You're helping the 9% of all automotive workers in the U.S. who work for foreign companies. Apparently you have little concern for the other 91% of auto workers OR the entire economic stability of a country that consists of 50 states, not just a handful that employ a miniscule number of people.

"I just had the misfortune of driving a brand new Chevy Aveo tonight. Long story short, left a wedding and drove the groom's Aveo from one place to another. He paid for this car the same price I paid for my new Hyundai Accent... and the Aveo is laughable. I literally felt bad for him as soon as I sat in it. This is the most cheap, tacky looking interior I've EVER seen."

It's funny how different people view things. I've test-driven two Aveos and my best friend owns a Hyundai Accent, which I've drive quite a bit. My impression is just the opposite. Though the Hyundai is a VERY good car (way ahead of the Yaris) the interior is not one iota better in any way, shape, or form than that of the Aveo. In addition, the Aveo was one of the quietest, smoothest small cars I've ever driven. It was quieter and smoother than the much higher quality GM compacts I've test-driven.

Since the Aveo is a virtual CLONE of the Hyundai, it's ludicrous to try and persuade anyone there is any really great difference in the two cars. Both are Korean imports. Both have nearly identical 4-cylinder engines, as well as comparable drive trains. Interior quality is actually just a tad BETTER in the Aveo. The materials used are slightly higher quality. I wouldn't buy either because they are imports and I don't buy anything made by a foreign-owned company (even if GM does sell it), but there is virtually ZERO difference in these two cars. For the money the larger GM compacts or the Ford Focus are a far better buy and much better quality, so in a subcompact one of those would be my choice.

"Just because something gets old doesn't mean it's automatically going to become problematic. Age in regard to a mechanical thing is only incidental."

Cars are full of plastic and rubber parts that get old and brittle and are subject to breaking much more easily. Age matters a lot more than most people really want to admit. Please also be aware that modern safety standards are recommending tires be replaced when over a certain number of years old because of quite a few fatalities when low mileage, but old, tires blew out. Age does matter.

"Sure. You're helping the 9% of all automotive workers in the U.S. who work for foreign companies. Apparently you have little concern for the other 91% of auto workers OR the entire economic stability of a country that consists of 50 states, not just a handful that employ a minuscule number of people."

Like I said - I don't care about Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, or any of the other rust belt states. They have been in a downward spiral for decades. I'm a Southerner and that's where my patriotism goes.

Secondly, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, and even Hyundai ALL have plants in the US. Toyota has numerous plants alone. There is a significant amount of US workers at non-domestic auto plants. So yes - I support US autoworkers, but only at companies who I feel makes a good product, and admittedly supports my home region of the country.

As mentioned before, auto manufacturing is NOT the entire Auto industry. If and when GM fails (which they are going to no matter what at this point) the economy is not going to go to heck in a handbasket.

"Since the Aveo is a virtual CLONE of the Hyundai, it's ludicrous to try and persuade anyone there is any really great difference in the two cars."

The Aveo is based off of the Daewoo Kalos using the T200 platform and a Daewoo developed engines. These were sold as the Kalos in the US prior to GM buying a chunk of Daewoo. Saying that a Daewoo is the same as a Hyundai is like saying that a Chevrolet is the same as a Ford. I too have rented these cars on business trips and I agree with the person who proclaimed them as garbage. They are. You could not pay me to own one of them either, regardess of who makes it.

"Cars are full of plastic and rubber parts that get old and brittle and are subject to breaking much more easily. Age matters a lot more than most people really want to admit. Please also be aware that modern safety standards are recommending tires be replaced when over a certain number of years old because of quite a few fatalities when low mileage, but old, tires blew out. Age does matter."

Yes, cars have plastic in them. That's nothing new. My 1955 Mercury has quite a bit actually, and it's over 50 years old. But just like qualities of steel, there are qualities of plastic. Some plastics disintegrate quickly. Others don't. Engineered plastics use things like more stable resins and UV inhibitors. Though my truck is 14 years old, all of the plastics are still just as flexible and stable as they were before.

As far as safety in regards to maintenance, well that's up the owner. I drive a lot and keep a close eye on the brake pads, tires, alignment, and whatever else needs attention. If someone else doesn't, that isn't the car manufacturer or vehicle's fault. As mentioned before, the driver of the car is the biggest safety component. Again, age is only incidental.

I consistently do my best to remain on topic, but here's my take on value. The most valuable vehicle is one that you really enjoy, love driving and gives you the best quality of life.

I own a full size new pickup, but no matter what I do it's a truck. What I tow with it is what makes its ownership worthwhile. Everyone is trying to save piles of money thinking that scrimping on vehicles is the solution. Not everyone can plan their breakdowns to be in their driveway and has all the tools, the manuals and the 2 1/2 hours spent under the hood. I would rather stay in my office and work that direction. I make a sizable decent income, have a new truck paid for.

It amazes me someone will have the capability to own a fun truly enjoyable car and settle for a $1000 beater. I have actually seen situations where someone will sacrifice owning a decent car, yet will redecorate, remodel their homes, new window treatments, new carpets, buy all new furniture without batting an eye every few years. And houses are flat or backward. No one ever talks about sacrificing smoking, spring water, tanning salons, multiple Blackberries, yet will sacrifice in their vehicles.

My parents always had cool cars without breaking the bank. The first I remember really well is my mom driving me to 1st-3rd grade grade in a brand new 1960 black MGA MKIII roadster every day, cost just over $2000... at 50,000 miles the engine blew and she sold it for $900. Sounds like a bad deal right? It wasn't whatsover as she still talks about that car today and the great times she had driving me to school everyday with the top down and smiling. The money she has accumulated now is not as much joy as that car and with us together. That started me on my zest for many great cars since.

My son went to Barrett Jackson Palm Beach just last weekend and shares the family passion. Does anyone on here truly like what they own and run out to drive it? He said the parking lot (not just Valet) was loaded with beautiful great cars driven in. As exciting as what was on the auction block on stage. I have had many great cars, none of them ever treated as just a basic plain appliance attached to a checkbook. If that brings you joy, it's sad it's a $200 expense annually to you. What fun.

If you truly love a vehicle, why not attain it? I would rather have a payment if necessary and spend great time behind the wheel. Give up a little somewhere else.... maybe quit smoking? It's a lot more fun than dipping into your fat checkbook to replace money reductions caused by 2 week furloughs that have become very popular in our area lately.

19:50 Sorry, if you have driven the Accent, you'll have seen the obvious night and day difference between it and the Aveo. This is not even a matter of preference or opinion to anyone who's driven both. The Accent is obviously the better looking car as far as the interior at least, without question. There is no comparison in the styling, design... etc. I just couldn't believe how cheesy the Aveo is compared to the Accent, or that GM would even SELL a car that looks like that inside. It's pathetic.

"Since the Aveo is a virtual CLONE of the Hyundai"

Nope. The two are made by different companies and are unrelated. *The Daewoo Kalos is a subcompact automobile manufactured by GM Daewoo (the South Korean subsidiary of General Motors) introduced in 2002 and marketed globally in 120 countries – prominently as the Chevrolet Aveo.*--this quote taken from Wikipedia.

This makes the Aveo very much like the Ford Focus in that both are mostly built or based on a model from a different company owned by either Ford or GM. The Focus is built on the Mazda 3 platform. Buy what you like.

Excuse me... wasn't this review about a Toyota Tundra?

"The most valuable vehicle is one that you really enjoy, love driving and gives you the best quality of life."

Agreed. But that will mean different things to different people. Some people want the newest, latest fashioned, fastest, most expensive car money can buy because they like the attention and exclusivity of their cars.

Then there's people like me. I want a vehicle that runs for a very long time and do so reliably so as to not hinder my financial situation on the road to retirement. Additionally, the older my vehicles get, the more proud I get. I take great pride in keeping my now aged vehicles looking new. Believe it or not I get compliments on how good they look for their age. I also take pride in the fact that they run flawlessly despite the high mileage. So for me the pride in ownership is perhaps different from someone else's.

There's no problem with buying new cars frequently or keeping them forever just the same as there's also no problem buying small or large trucks. Neither type of vehicle will fulfill everyone's idea of what is perfect.