2002 Toyota Tundra SR5 from North America - Off Topic Comments

"I do not know where you get 90% empty, is this a figure you have derived for your specific commute in your town? Maybe go to home centers, building supplies at 6 AM and see loaded trucks... maybe go to some marinas on a hot sunny day at the ramps."

I live in the Bay Area, California where there is around 6 million people. So a pretty big metro. There is a few Lowes and Home Depots near our house. The irony is that honestly, the bulk of the "work trucks" trucks I see parked out front owned by contractors are small trucks. Primarily Rangers, Nissans, and Tacomas. It's ironic because all during the week you'll see these little trucks out there, loaded to the top with tools, splattered with paint and covered with little dents and scratches. They are used almost like wheelbarrows. Most look like they've been through WW2. These are what I would call "work trucks"

Yet when the weekends roll around, that's when you'll see all the weekend warriors and their huge, shiney new Chevy Silverados, Tundras, and F-150's getting their one piece of lumber of couple bags of cement.

I see a lot of nice new large trucks at our independent building suppliers quite early, typically selling EP Henry Coventry Double Sided walls, Stonewall, Travertine patios EFIS, Enviromental Stone, Penncrete, doing high end homes in our areas, not driving junk. Lowes and Home Depot do not have the quality or products.

The owners have some pretty sharp trucks towing trailers with nice logos. They are not all splattered up. They go out on estimates and it's a reflection on quality not driving a pigpen. Many have shops, yet drive their new trucks home, many with Trac Rac sliding Rails on beds, Knaack Weatherguard better boxes that slide as well. Maybe you ride around on the bad side of town.

"I live in the Bay Area, California where there is around 6 million people. So a pretty big metro. There is a few Lowes and Home Depots near our house. The irony is that honestly, the bulk of the "work trucks" trucks I see parked out front owned by contractors are small trucks."

I'm not the guy you've been trading comments with up until now, but I thought I'd tell you a bit about my experience. I was a carpet installer in Fargo, ND and central MN for 10 years. In this area, the contractors drive larger pickups. Almost all drive F250, F350, and even the occasional F450. There are also quite a few Chevy/GMC 2500+ sized pickups. I honestly can't remember seeing a contractor drive anything smaller (and I met hundreds of them) because they usually kept their tools in a large trailer. They also use goose-neck trailers to bring skid-steer loaders, etc. to the job-site so they required something larger than a small truck or 150/1500 sized truck.

Now I own a tree farm/nursery in central MN. All of our landscapers require larger trucks because they have to get big equipment to the jobsite. Most of them drive at least an F350 sized truck. Some have trucks the size of a GMC Topkick (usually a flatbed trailer behind). They often leave with a 15,000-20,000lb load of trees. While they may only get 6-8 MPG, that's really quite good compared to the small trucks getting 20 MPG loaded making 5-7 trips to move the same number. A small pickup would be overloaded with two standard 28" BB 5' conifers (2-3 more if they use a trailer). I know this because many of our homeowner customers do exactly that.

Likewise, you mentioned that you'd see them at Home Depot. That's another difference. Here, almost all of the contractors prefer lumber yards over the big box stores because of the services offered and the price they can negotiate for an entire project.

I know the Bay Area. Most of my family lives in or moved away from Santa Rosa so I've been there many times. I don't doubt your observations at all. I suspect they rent larger trucks or that they are actually subs (who often use smaller rigs). But in the right environments (farming, landscaping, contracting, trailering, or even just living in a very rural area) a full-sized truck is no toy. It is a tool that provides many answers for the varied needs of its owner.

On a side note: Some guys can indeed load their trucks up to the top with tools etc., but the DOT has been cracking down on that sort of thing around here. So work trucks almost HAVE to be big to avoid the flashing lights (or make several trips wasting time and gasoline). It's just like mandating safety seats and seat belts... people who used to squeeze 5 kids into the back seat of their Civic were forced to buy a minivan or SUV... the net effect is that vehicles get bigger for safety reasons.

Anyway, that's the way things are here. Big trucks are still needed for big work. But it IS common for even work trucks to be driven empty. Many contractors will park their trailers at the jobsite and drive empty. Many farmers will drive the same truck, that was pulling an ammonia tank hours before, to town empty. Everyone can't own a different vehicle for every need, so they may get used to go to the grocer too. That doesn't mean that they're unnecessary... rather the opposite. Cheers!

Thank you to the original reviewer!

I agree. I also do not know what all the debating is about, as this certainly began as a review of a little truck.

Do you think these bazillion comments were left by 2 guys arguing with each other, or 1 guy arguing with himself? :)

The fact still remains that the structural components and construction practices used on the Tundra are VASTLY sub-standard to those used on domestic trucks. Having owned and worked on domestic and Japanese cars and trucks, I can assure you that the frame components, axle shafts, front suspension components and brakes on the Japanese vehicles are much smaller and weaker than those on any domestic. As long as the truck is used basically as a car (in other words just for grocery hauling or taking the kids to soccer games) a Tundra should be adequate. For anything more strenuous than hauling a small load on paved roads, you're going to be much better off with a more reliable and more solidly built domestic (ANY domestic. All three are up to the task). Our companies use Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks. We simply can't afford the down-time that less rugged trucks (I.e. Tundra and Titan) require. If you don't haul anything regularly and drive on paved roads, you might get 100,000 miles out of a Tundra. If you use it as a TRUCK, you won't.

Actually, I think most of these comments were made by Ford and Chevy fans and/or self proclaimed mechanics who cannot accept the fact that a foreign company (Toyota) makes far better vehicles than Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. It bothers them, so they like to attack Toyota for having the gall to be a higher quality auto manufacturer and still be FOREIGN at the same time. I have gotten a kick out of reading it all though.

"It bothers them, so they like to attack Toyota for having the gall to be a higher quality auto manufacturer and still be FOREIGN at the same time. I have gotten a kick out of reading it all though."

I hope you "get a kick" out of seeing 10% of your friends and neighbors losing their jobs and homes because people decided to turn their backs on American industry.

I agree that the domestic full size trucks are built better as well. I still will test drive everything again when I buy another new full size. This is not a car comparison.

"It bothers them, so they like to attack Toyota for having the gall to be a higher quality auto manufacturer and still be FOREIGN at the same time."

Higher quality my foot:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html

What other myths do you believe?

"I still will test drive everything again when I buy another new full size."

Not me. Buying a foreign vehicle is not even a consideration.

Besides, while people can believe any myths they want about the grass always being greener on the other side, I see far more people having trouble with imports than I ever have domestic. I have never had a single problem with my American vehicles and have no intention of buying anything else.

Furthermore, the import fans can ignore my experience and that of countless other happy domestic owners, call me naive or whatever they want. But my purchasing habits do not contribute to the destruction of my country like theirs do, while they pretend there is no reason to be ashamed as they drive down the road in their imports.

"Not me. Buying a foreign vehicle is not even a consideration.

Besides, while people can believe any myths they want about the grass always being greener on the other side, I see far more people having trouble with imports than I ever have domestic. I have never had a single problem with my American vehicles and have no intention of buying anything else.

Furthermore, the import fans can ignore my experience and that of countless other happy domestic owners, call me naive or whatever they want. But my purchasing habits do not contribute to the destruction of my country like theirs do, while they pretend there is no reason to be ashamed as they drive down the road in their imports."

THANK YOU!! It's good to see a few true patriots left besides ME. When our citizens buy a car made by a foreign-owned company they hurt 91% of the people in this country who work in auto-related jobs. Choosing to help only 9% while hurting 91% does not seem very patriotic to me. I've owned imports. They were crap (including one German car). I've owned many domestics. NOT ONE ever had a problem before 100,000 miles. 90% of the cars I see broken down on my way into my office are Japanese brands. Usually Nissan, but quite a few Civics and Camrys.