1994 Alfa Romeo 164 Cloverleaf from UK and Ireland - Comments

Clutch failed at 40,000 miles. (Expensive) replacement clutch fitted, but this has also just started to slip. Electric window motor burned out.

Air con seems to need recharging once a year to stay effective

Some interior trim has broken or fallen off.

A beautiful and soulful big saloon which has suffered some niggling problems, but to be fair has only left me stranded once (when the clutch disintegrated).

The engine makes the car, and performance is stunning for such a tank, although traction can be a problem in the wet with 200-odd horsepower and front drive. This V6 is however one of the most aurally and aesthetically stunning engines ever made, as well as being powerful and relatively economical (25 mpg). Why didn't Alfa offer a perspex bonnet as an option so that you can show off the chrome manifolds and crackle finished alloy cam covers to the world?

The rest of the car is also good, although somewhat overshadowed by the engine. The Pininfarina bodyshell is still an elegant design which contrasts wonderfully with the increasingly ostentatious and arrogant looking designs from companies such as BMW and Mercedes. The chassis, despite sometimes struggling to deploy the power off the line in the wet, is also superb. It shrugs off potholes and camber changes, and turns in with amazing agility for its size. It isn't a back road burner, but can be made to dance quite satisfactorily if you're in the mood.

Interior is a let down. The leather is of good quality, and the design is quite stylish in a late 80's tons of buttons and lights kind of way, but the entire plastics for the dash must have cost Alfa a couple of quid at most. That said, the driving position is good and the seats support well. There is also loads of room in the back, and a good size boot.

If you want something a bit different from the BMW-clone crowd, the 164 is a great choice. Just be prepared for silly little faults, and keep it serviced on the button by a good Alfa specialist. I don't doubt mine will still be going strong with 150,000 miles on it, although I dread to think how many clutches it will have chewed through by then.

I bought my 1992 164S car at 50K miles and now have almost 100K on it.

I agree 90% with the review you made, though I have had far less problems than yourself.

For example the air conditioner needs no recharging, but I did have to replace the stepper motor.

Electric windows never falter, and nothing fell off the interior trim.

I have had one new clutch, at 75,000 miles, which is what "my Alfa guy" says is normal for this car. I have it serviced regularly, (which anyone owning just any car should do anyway.)

I would never swap it for a BMW (Break My Windows) and a Mercedes is singularly unexciting to me. (For reference I am 67 years young!) I have had Alfas since 1971 exclusively.

You have either been very unlucky with clutches or perhaps you "ride" the clutch to hold the car when waiting in uphill traffic (instead of using the handbrake). I have only changed a clutch once (in 200,000 miles of 164 driving) - at 160,000 miles!

Since I wrote this review I have changed jobs and now have a company car (a Mondeo TDCi). However, I couldn't bring myself to part with the Alfa, and my wife has grown quite fond of it, so we decided to keep it as a second car. It's still a joy to drive, although its use tends to be restricted to weekends these days.

I'm never closed to the idea that my driving technique may be at fault re: the clutch issue, but having done 104,000 miles in the Mondeo with the original clutch still working fine, I suspect it's not me. And I abuse the Mondeo more than I ever have the Alfa.

I can agree with your comment on clutches, but only on age not mileage. I have a 36k miler 24v Cloverleaf, and the clutch will have to be replaced soon, not because it slips, but because the pedal is getting heavy, as the pressure plate fingers are getting tired now that it is nearly 9 years old. Classic symptoms, of easy gear change when cold, but as heat transfer builds up from the engine, the hotter it gets, the more the gear change relies on syncromesh ability than the clutch itself.

My old 12v Cloverleaf, has a similar heavy pedal problem due to the above, but that is up at 120k miles, and there is no sign of slippage yet.

Also I would partly agree with you on Alfa electronics, as sensors do fail, such as oil pressure, and water temperature etc. (Bosch sensors, which just goes to prove that not everything German is ultra reliable). Plus the LCD display on the face lift models has a habit of becoming dim, or bits of it, or even all of it, not displaying at all. Sometimes this can be rectified by dismantling it completely, and just cleaning off all the contacts on the circuit board etc! If you are getting intermittent and spurious warning lights on the dash, it is usually the bulkhead multi connector plug causing the problems. Just disconnect it, and with a good electronic contact cleaner, liberally spray coat all the pins / sockets, and then remake the connector loads of times to try and clean them all up a bit.

As to the engines, you do need to keep the oil & filter changes, with good quality oil up to date. Whatever you do, do not go past 5 years without a cambelt change on the v6 motor, especially the 24v one. Also do not skimp on the tensioner change out at the same time, you will live to regret it, as the back plate / bent steel part of the bracket can snap off with age. This means the cambelt becomes loose, and you can guess what happens next.

Also the Cloverleaf switchable suspension quite often has a mind of its own, and for no reason reverts back to the default setting of Sport, even though it’s set in Auto, for which read as, “ Your fillings will fall out soon if this does not revert to Auto”.

Apart from that, the body and suspension is pretty damn well bullet proof, apart from the need to replace the main suspension bushes to limit the torque steer at the front, and the rear wheel steer at the back. This is best done with polypropylene after market bushes, from someone like Superflex etc. This does not take too long to do, and transforms the handling, but just remember to get it 4 wheel aligned after replacement. The rear suspension beam can also rot out, but it is less than £100 from Alfa, but it is a nightmare to fit, as by that stage, the long bolts attaching the arms to the bottom of the rear struts etc. will all have corroded into position! Eventually the rear suspension trailing arm mounting points rot out, and that means welding to get it through an MOT.

Would this lot make me sell my 164, or more truthfully 164’s, as I’ve got 4 of the various versions? Not a chance! I already own a 166 3.0v6, and it is “asleep” on the road compared to a 164. I was going to buy a 156 GTA as well, but although it produces a tad more horsepower than the 164 24v cloverleaf, from its 3.2v6, it is heavier to boot, and it does not turn into a corner as quickly as a 164 either. It is definitely not as well balanced on the road, and also you cannot dial out the understeer on the 156 by nearly paralleling the rear wheel alignment as you can on the 164, there just is not the amount of adjustment available.

To sum it up, keep a 164 for ever, preferably a Cloverleaf, it was the best car Alfa have ever produced!

I've just read your review posted on 2nd May 2006. I too have had more than one 164 - in 1996 I bought a 1991 red 12v Cloverleaf and a couple of years ago got a 1996 24v Black Cloverleaf.

I have had good reliability over the years with no major problems. My dashboard display is only showing parts of the readout so I'll do as you suggested and clean the contacts.

I also have found that the difference between "sports" and "normal" suspension settings is far less noticeable on the later car.

These are certainly the best cars I've ever had, and so rare nowdays - they allow you to be different.