On Topic (21) | Off Topic (26) | All (47)
Comments: 1-15, 16-26
Now I hear that Toyota is recalling 30,000 cars because the airbags might not work!! I guess they are too busy being "superior" to worry about minor details like that.
Toyota has had only a VERY small percentage of recalls compared to anything made by Chevrolet, Dodge, or Ford. If you're going to try to criticize Toyota, at least get your facts straight.
Well, gee, I guess Toyota would have less recalls than Ford, GM or Chrysler. After all, they sell about a TENTH the number of cars that the Big Three sell.
To think that Toyota has somehow cornered the market on build quality is a delusion. Ad hype, the idea that charging more for comparable products somehow makes them "better", and reviews in Japanese-owned magazines has led a lot of people to the very incorrect assumption that Japan builds better cars. The real world experience of car owners tells a different story. Japanese cars, are on average comparable to, but certainly no better, than American cars.
I hear the chant of "higher resale value" continually from those misled by the ad hype. OF COURSE Japanese cars sell higher used. They START OUT higher. If you pay $25,000 for a Camry, keep it two years and sell it for $17,000 (about average depreciation for one) you've lost $8000. If you bought a Ford Taurus for $16,500 and sold it for $14,000 two years later (typical depreciation for Taurus) you've lost $2500. Unless you are REALLY bad at math, it's easy to see you're $5500 better off with the Taurus (not to mention the lower maintenance costs of the Taurus).
This morning I read that Toyota has yet ANOTHER recall due to a major safety defect on their pitiful F-150 imitator, the Tundra. I guess this is another example of superior Japanese build quality??
To 18:56. Toyota has far less recalls by PERCENTAGE. Look it up.
I'd rather drive a safe car than one that has recalls involving such major safety issues. A cigarette lighter not working is one thing. An accelerator sticking or an airbag not working is far more serious.
HUH??
I have owned Toyota's and Chevys and Fords.. the last one is by far the crappiest car that I ever owned.. The new and improved F150 has A pillars that are too weak to support the body in case of a rollover.. and speaking of a rollover.. Did we all forget that the Explorer rolls on a dime.. with its 2 star rollover rating.. who is paying you guys to post this crap.. I have seen many memos of Ford engineer recommending safty changes only to be overruled because of cost.. I will never buy another ford.. The 2004 Tribute.. is Escape.. came with the crappy 3.0 Ford V6 with no midrange power (off the line it was peppy).. and with the even more boring 4 speed.. by then ford should have had a 240 HP VVT with at least a 5 sp auto in there.. instead of the crappy 3.0 200 HP with a 4 sp than can bearly do 8.7 seconds 0-60..
Toyota is by far more reliable than anything I have owned and I can't say enought good things about Lexus.. now that is a car..
To 21:14, thank you for making one of the few reasonable comments that have been posted lately.
Lexus is also a luxury brand that costs double if not triple that of the cars you mentioned.
Its your fault for choosing and engine tranny combo you didn't like. Its not like we forced you to. 0-60 times? when does that matter in an suv?
I thought I'd add a comment that will hopefully level the playing field. We all have our own bias and no one is allowed to state 1 is better than another without considering ALL (I mean ALL) the items that make up a certain bias.
Here's a concrete example. How many mothers think their baby is the cutest baby around. I'd bet 90% think such. I think many above have babies for cars (or car OEMs) and have not considered ALL the facts.
Let's start from the top.
Writer from 18:56: Toyota does NOT have less recalls because they sell 1/10th the vehicles. Toyota actually sells nearly as many vehicles as any OEM, on pace to be #1 in volume very soon. The exact reason is actually unknown. My opinion is that it is a number of factors. They built a great product, they have a culture that rewards perfection and they are too proud to admit/fix mistakes. (See culture reason above. These go hand in hand.)
Writer from 5:52. Your %-age comments are speculation. Having worked in a Tier 1 auto supplier (supplying to both domestics and foreign), recall policies are different for each OEM. Domestics and European have policies that are about the same and allow for recalls to occur more often. (See comment regarding cigarette lighter's vs airbags.) Asian OEM are much less prone to issue recalls for anything, and when they do, the recall is usually much more serious. Again, I think it all starts with the culture of Asians, less willing to admit defeat and correct.
Writer from 21:14. You left out many important details. 1) The Ford Explorer is not in the same class as the Highlander. Comparing the 2 makes you look less intelligent than you probably are. Also, your data is from 2003. Since 2005, (inclusive) the Explorer has be upped 1 star to 3 star for roll over. Now let's look at all the roll-over numbers, comparing like competitors. Explorer v. 4Runner and Freestyle v Highlander. The NHTSA star rating for these vehicles are, respectively, 3-star v 3-star and 4-star v 4-star. Your hypothesis of demonetizing Ford is all in your head.
If you have an opinion, share it respectfully with others, checking the facts in all cases before posting. Your opinion may or may not agree with the facts.
The playing field is now equal. Now, get out there and drive!
I appreciate the previous well-founded and researched comment (14:57). I'd like to add another. I am always running across wild and inaccurate statements about American made vehicles having "horrible resale value" compared to Japanese cars. Baloney!! I went shopping for a small truck last year and had negotiated a price on a Toyota Prerunner SR-5. Thinking it was pretty high, I shopped Ford and bought a comparably equipped V-6 Ranger for thousands less. A few days ago I checked the Kelly Bluebook "private party" resale value (what you should get if you sold it yourself) for the Toyota and the Ranger. The value shown for my Ranger was actually MORE than I paid for it by $1080. The Toyota was about $400 LESS than I was being asked to pay for it. (and YES, I entered the exact same equipment and mileage for both vehicles). When looking at resale value you have to look at WHAT YOU ACTUALLY PAID, NOT THE LIST. Last year I sold my 5 year old Dodge truck for 90% of what I paid for it brand new. You will NEVER do that with ANY Japanese truck...EVER. I bought my Dodge for $7000 off list and my Ranger for $5000 off list. You can't base resale value on suggested list.
As for reliablity, I just got the latest issue of Consumer Reports Auto edition. For Tacoma it lists projected reliability as "average". For Ranger it lists projected reliability as "average". Looks like I saved money AND got a vehicle that is equally reliable.
I need to amend my previous comment (13:10). I stated that the Toyota was "about $400 less in value than it's purchase price". I just checked (I'd written the figures down a few days ago) and I noticed that the value of the Prerunner is actually $650 less than it's negotiated price. That means I'm actually ANOTHER $250 better off with my Ranger than what I stated earlier. In all, it now has a private party value of over $1700 more than the Prerunner I (thankfully) did not buy.
Comment 15:40 asks "when do 0-60 times matter in an SUV?" Well, for one thing, when merging onto a freeway. Before we bought our current (American) SUV we drove the horribly underpowered and quirky handling Highlander V-6. It was so slow we barely could merge onto a freeway at a safe speed. Our amply powerful and super smooth GMC is as fast as some V-8 cars we've driven (and it's a 6), and in 3 years it has never seen the inside of a service department except for oil changes and recommended servicing. In reading about the Highlander's problems with brakes, airbags, sticking accelerators and erratically shifting transmissions I thank my lucky stars every day we didn't buy one. Performance DOES matter, and until Toyota builds something more powerful than a golf cart I have no intention of looking at another one.
Your exaggerations about the Highlander's acceleration are ridiculous. It is probably faster than your GMC. Generic Motor Company. Please don't mention GMC again on a Toyota site. They are a disgrace; this is the same company that made the jimmy, one of the consistently crappiest vehicles ever made. ANY GMC cannot stand in the shadow of a Highlander or any other Toyota ever to come off of the production line.
Trying to compare a Highlander, which is basically an underpowered Camry front drive train with a bloated SUV body tacked on to a real SUV like a GMC Envoy or Suburban is sort of like comparing PeeWee Herman to Arnold Schwarzenegger. The GMC's are real truck based SUV's with rear drive, and even the Envoy with the base in-line 6 puts out way more power than the puny Highlander's most powerful engine. in addition the GMC's have air bags that actually inflate, transmissions that really shift, accelerators that do not jam in the full open position, and anti-lock brakes that actually stop them. I wouldn't dream of standing "in the shadow" of a Highlander. I'd probably get run over when it's brakes failed and it couldn't stop.