Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60, 61-75, 76-79
There does appear to be a serious case of buck passing on this tire issue. If you call Bridgestone they will tell you that Toyota is the one pushing the run-flat tires and poor wear is a known issue. If you call Toyota they say that it is up to Bridgestone to replace bad tires. If reported before 12,000 miles it seems that Toyota will give you another set. But then what do you do at 24,000? They will not help a second time. When I picked up my new Toyota the dealer made sure to point out that the tires were the one thing that was not covered under their warranty. To be sure, I was not told that I would be very lucky to get 20,000 miles out of my run-flats. Also, if the wear does not get you, the pulling or the noise from the run-flats will. Had I known all this, it might have made me decide not to purchase a Sienna. In my previous post I noted that I have now replaced the run-flats and now have a spare behind seat. With the new Goodyears having a tread wear rating of 700, I should be good for another 60,000 miles. But I still feel that I should have at least gotten some token help from Toyota. I plan to complain again.
Don Hazle
Port Matilda Pa.
Don,
Thanks for posting. I'm considering switching to regular tires for the Sienna to avoid the early wear/flats, etc. and I now believe that regular tires will probably solve the veering/pulling problem we're having. But my understanding is that you can't just put regular tires on these vans, but that you have to purchase some kind of kit? Can you clue me in here?
Update: yesterday I phoned Toyota national and they were of no help. Could not say that they had received other complaints and couldn't solve the problem other than to refer me to the dealer. Hello?! I've been to the dealer three times. Then they told me that I needed to call Dunlop to complain because Toyota is not responsible for tires. So today I phoned Dunlop. They said that they don't guarantee tires even if they wear out at only 6500 miles, as ours did. They have referred me to a local tire dealer to have them inspected. Then they will consider replacing, but not for free. This is ridiculous. My next step is to go back to the dealer and then I will fall into the Lemon law bracket in NY state (4 times to correct the same problem). Next I'm going to the dept of consumer affairs and then see if I can get a reporter on this issue.
I replaced that tires and didn't need any kit. I had checked with the dealer and he said that standard tires will fit and work with no problem. I went to SAM'S club and they did have a new run-flat tire changer to get the old tires off. But they had to work so hard that they half seriously told me to go somewhere else if I had any problems with the remaining run-flat that I used as a spare. They are a real pain to get off. The only good news is that I called and complained again to Toyota customer service. This time they did give me a $100 service credit good for any work done from Toyota.
Don Hazle
Port Matilda, Pa.
Follow up. We finally had a "regional rep" from toyota call today about our non-functioning tire pressure monitor with runflats. He states it's a known problem, but that the tires are still safe and that we just have to check pressure with a gauge regularly. I asked him to go on record that it's safe to drive a runflat with no pressure at highway speeds and he would not, but he stated toyota will do nothing about this problem. He states that the system uses a noise sensor to measure the "flat" state of a tire and that the pressue monitor WILL activate when the tire is impending a total failure.
So let me get this straight Toyota - the tire pressure monitor will activate just before the tire on the minivan carrying my wife and kids is about to blow off the vehicle and cause a crash that could kills someone and -that- is considered OK?
I will never buy another Toyota again and advise anyone who considers safety an issue NOT to buy the AWD sienna with runflat tires. This is just insanity and Toyota should be ashamed.
I also encourage everyone with this situation to file a complaint with the US government at the following website: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/
I got a call from someone there and they are aware of this issue. If enough people complain it will put pressure back on Toyota to actually do the right thing and retrofit a pressure monitor that actually measures pressure in the tire.
I bought my brand new Sienna XLE Limited last August. I wanted a safe, smooth ride for my family. I chose the Sienna and spent the first winter very happy - we live in WY Jan, Feb and Mar. April we returned to CA, and by the end of April had our first FLAT. I was alone with my daughter, 12:30 AM, on a Saturday night, when my ride felt rough and after about 5 miles the tire indicator came on. I pulled off the freeway, I80 in Sacramento, CA, to the nearest gas station and called Triple A. While waiting I began to look for my spare tire - EVERYWHERE. Pulled out the manual, read about my run flats and realized I did not have a spare. This was news to me as when purchasing the vehicle nothing was said to me. Triple A came and to make a long story short I decided to risk the 80 miles home. We made it - scary going 40miles an hour on I80 - by 3:30 AM.
First thing Monday morning I called my
Toyota dealer and expressed my dissatisfaction with this tire design. They were unsympathetic and sent me to Bridgestone as they do not warranty my tires. Bridgestone of San Francisco, did not have a tire. The closest one was in Chicago they said and soonest I could get it would be Friday. Fri AM I called to be sure the tire had arrived and it had not. Tracking it showed it would be there by Monday. I called Toyota again, expressing my disbelief that they could sell such a "new" product without making sure it was in stock. They put me on hold, had me talk to supervisors, managers, all who said they could do nothing - the tires were under Bridgestone warranty.
Monday I get my new tire and have it put on at the mere price of $345.
I am not happy, but think for that price these must be very good tires.
Three weeks later I get my second flat. This time I am in Monterey for my goddaughter's college graduation, when indicator light goes on I have great disbelief that this could really be happening again. Soon I determined it was indeed happening again. I call my Toyota dealer and tell them I can't believe this, but I have another flat. He says go to the nearest Monterey Tire Store, I found Sullivan's Tires, and let them know to patch my Run Flat as I am only traveling 10 miles this time and it is reparable, but make sure not to plug it, but to patch it, and it can be repaired. Again to make a long story short, Sullivan's tells me they do not carry run flats, they cannot repair a run flat, and there is no other tire made the same size as my runflat to put on. The closest run flat is in San Jose CA and I will have to wait a day to get it. I needed to return that night as my children were with a sitter and I had an early morning appointment. Again to make the story short about the hours of research, phone calling, arguing, and thinking - I ended up going to the Monterey Toyota Dealer, talking them into selling me a regular Bridgestone tire that is the right size for my car for $135 and taking it to Sullivan's who agreed to put in on for me. Toyota would not as they would not be liable for my driving a car with a regular tire on it without a spare.
Sullivan's said if they were me they would get rid of this car as they see on average one a week in there with a flat - one week a lady came in three times.
I decide Toyota will now surely help me out. I go back to them. It soon became clear they were not going to help me. Meanwhile it is time for my 20,000 mile maintenance. I bring my car into a Toyota repair garage as I am too angry with my Toyota Dealer to continue using them for my servicing. When I pick up my car they show me my tires. My RunFlats need to be replaced as they have worn unevenly and where they have worn they are bald! I cannot believe as this shows even the tires that did not go flat now need to be replaced at $345 each. NO THANK YOU! and they will last no longer than 20,000 miles. Why pay so much for such a lousy product?
It is suggested I have not kept the air pressure or alignment. Upon inspection it is agreed my alignment is fine, my tires have been properly, and on time, rotated.
I have been speaking with the Toyota 1 800 customer service line and Bridgestone 1800 and to date have received no sympathy or help. Toyota each is trying to find blame with me and my maintenance of the tire. How can a tire which costs over $300, no matter how poorly maintained need to be replaced at 20,000 miles.
I have put three more of the Bridgstone Teranza's tires on my Sienna. I am trying to purchase a spare tire as the jack etc. are already on board, but have not found a Toyota dealer who has one. I am disappointed in Toyota and Bridgestone and open to advise as to what to do next. After reading all the online complaints I think a recall or some assistance from Toyota is in order. They have always promoted themselves as a company who cares about their product.
We did contact our local news, there was a story shown last week, Channel 4 with Tom B. here in San Francisco, CA. I hope to see some further action soon.
I called the 1-800-331-4331 number in my Sienna Manual and complained again. The only thing that the person would admit to was having complaints that the tires were expensive and hard to get. The 20,000 miles or less for tread wear was news to her. But to her credit she did give me a $100 service credit.
The people at my local Toyota dealer have at least been honest. They know that there is a problem and tell me that several other Sienna owners with run flats have complained. Again, I have made the switch to standard tires and have a full size spare that will lay flat behind the last row. My TOTAL cost for the tires was $550 for Goodyears from SAMS Club with a tread wear of rating of 700. Handing, ride and noise levels have all improved.
Don Hazle
Port Matilda, Pa.
I am just back from my dealer after putting my Sienna LE in to check on noise coming from what I thought was rear wheel bearings. I was shocked to find that with 25,000km on the clock (15,500 miles) the cause of the noise was “rears tires slightly feathered also all 4 tires are getting low and should be replaced before winter. Estimate $2030 Canadian with taxes.
I have only had one winter out of these tires and they now need replacing. On my last vehicle I did not have to replace the tires for 4 years at 90,000km.
The dealer said there was not enough wear on the tires to get any special deal from Dunlop, it appeared from the comments being made by the dealer that this is a regular problem they face with run flat tires. Further it seems that there is just general acceptance that these tire last only 30 to 40km.
Having to replace tires on an annual basis was never pointed out by the Toyota salesperson when they were extolling the virtues of run flat tires.
I have since found two friends who have just forked out for new sets of tires for their Sienna for exactly the same problem.
I phoned Toyota Canada and they said they have never heard of the problem, it is not an issue, but they would log it. I requested action and a formal response, but all I got was we will make a note of your request on the file.
I phoned Dunlop and they were very sympathetic, the guy said if it were my vehicle I would not have these expensive performance tires on a family van. He recommended Dunlop Winter Grastic DS2 run flat at half the price of the factory fitted tires or better still go to a Forterra all season at half the price, but get a spare. The Forterra all season have a warranted life of 95km.
I think I will go the Forterra route with a spare for the next Canadian winter.
I n the mean time I am going the formally write to Toyota and try and get them to take ownership of the problem and will use the comments from this web site to support the case.
Replacing tires every year on a family van (and at double the cost of normal tires) is not viable. I would not have bought the Sienna if I had known of this hidden cost.
Having driven a 2004 Toyota Sienna XLE Limited AWD now for over a year, I have been mostly happy except for lower than suggested mileage I seem to get.
My run-flat indicator light seems to work, as it has lit up both times I picked up a nail and lost pressure. My understanding is that it uses the ABS sensor to detect slight differences in rotational speed over time, and if so then it would not work if all the tires were similarly under-inflated. The first time I had a flat I took it to the tire dealer and they told me (with a straight face, bless their hearts!) that it couldn't be patched, that they had to replace them in pairs, and that they didn't have any, but could order them to arrive in a few days. I laughed all the way back to the car, went to my usual tire store, and they patched it for free and I was on my way in about 30 minutes. I haven't had a problem with it yet, and that was about 10k miles ago. Guess where I went the second time I had a flat.
Now I am at about the 16k mile mark and have been whining about the wear on the tires for the last 5k miles or so. I took it to a local dealer and had them look at the alignment. They assured me it was within specs and it must have been my driving or failure to rotate the tires every five minutes. Again, with an equally straight face. A little while later I took it to my usual tire store and it wasn't long before the guy in the alignment pit was having a good laugh at my expense and joking to me that unless the wheels were both toed in about 90 degrees that they would probably pass factory specs. My wear patterns were fine for the back tires, and the front tires had excessive wear on the outside shoulders. My guess is that I would have been able to run them 35-40k miles except for the wear on the shoulders. He suggested increasing the pressure a bit (within specs, I assume!) to transfer the wear more to the center of the tire to try to get some more miles out of them. In any case, since the wear patterns have already set in, they're probably going to die young. I don't know how this is going to play out, but we'll see.
My thinking is that when you buy a new car, run it down and have the alignment checked immediately by a reputable shop, and forget about getting the dealer to admit it needs fixing. Does anyone else have any experiences that support or contradict this?
These are awful tires, period. Twice as expensive with less than half the expected wear. A ride like a jackhammer. Toyota may be looking forward, but only to a class action lawsuit if they don't do the right thing. Good luck to anyone who has these dangerous dogs. We replaced the whole lot at 30,000 miles with conventional tires and the result is much better performance and relative peace of mind. Too bad we had to go through a year of hell to get it!!!
Well I have a 2004 van bought new for my wife and 3 kids to enjoy. I soon found out what a piece of crap this van is. I have replace all 4 tires at 9000 miles with Toyota's help. It took 4 months and bye now 5000 more miles to get a new set. After 6 months I needed another set because my wife put on another 9000 miles. I then with no help from my dealer that I have been with for 20 years replaced all 4 and bought a used wheel and another tire for a spare. I put regular tires on it this time. Toyota has said its not there problem all along. I only no that if they don't do something soon I will be looking at another car company soon. Just to let you know that I have bought 15 Toyota's over my life time and just bought a new Tundra and Avalon in the past 10 months. Maybe we should all drive to Glen Burne, MD and see someone in person. Thanks for letting me complain.
I currently own a 2004 Toyota sienna. I am experiencing irregular tire wear on the inside of the tires. I first contacted a G oodyear supplier of the run flat tires. They told me it was an alignment problem and to see my Toyota dealer. The dealer did admit the alignment was out, but only the front. I then took it upon myself to take it to an alignment shop. Surprise! Right side was worse, but both were out. I have called Toyota and the dealer. Maybe the tire problem is more of an alignment problem? Still waiting for reply and will let you know what happens. In the meantime I hope this might help some people.
UGH - right here with you. I must be one of the lucky ones - ha! My 2004 came with the Bridgestone's, and I just happened to notice when parked with my wheels at an angle last week, that at 25,000 miles, my front tires are completely worn on the outsides. Back seem fine, but who knows for sure since I can't see the insides. My tread indicators came thru this weekend after about another 1000, and I've noticed an indentation parallel to the balding which has me worried. My husband thinks we're fine to make a 1000 mile roundtrip from Baltimore to Atl for TG, but traveling with our 2 young children, I'm thinking not. I had thought worst case scenario, that we might get stuck somewhere in between getting our tires replaced. But after today's adventure, calling around to our local tire shops to find out the best we can do is 3-5 day delivery (!!!) - in a large metro market - I sure don't want to be on the road when these guys give in and be stuck in Charlotte or Spartanburg (if we're lucky to be near a town that large!) for 3-5 days or more over a holiday weekend!! Come on, this is INSANE. I will call my 2 Toyota dealers first thing Monday to hear them laugh at me when I ask if they have any in stock. I don't understand how the dealers cannot keep them in stock when they know how many they go thru from the sounds of this bulletin board. UGH - despite trading it in - what am I to do? Keep it, drive with a donut in my seat well in the back and HOPE that technology improves in the next 10 years that will give me my seatwell back? Ugh, just paid the *#*#* thing off too!!! We made sure to get the AWD too bc we found the FWD was not enough in heavy snow and didn't want to deal with switching to snow tires. Had the Chrysler T&C AWD which used reg. tires, but gave us a host of transmission problems, locked up steering wheel, and airbag indicator lites. The latter problem they always blew us off for and turned the light off, but just heard on the news this weekend that it could turn out to be a major recall. Oh brother... I guess I will be buying a donut, a wheel, and, oh yea - a JACK. (And canceling my trip to Atlanta...) To be continued... advice please if anyone has it. (oh, and I'm not willing to put a tire on my roof rack, thanks)
UPDATE:
Wanted to update you with a good story/outcome. Today I was able to get my Bridgestone runflats installed with same day service from TCI Tire Center in Baltimore. They got them for me in record time and got me in for a quick install. Also have to give kudos to my local Toyo dealership and my wonderful service manager there - started with them first thing this morning and was told a day for delivery. They called tonite saying they were in and that I could come in tomorrow for the install. My expectations were so low after reading all the negative experiences, that I think this is worth reporting. One day to get tires, while still bizarre, is a def. improvement over the 3-5 day scenario. The stars came together today and while they weren't cheap, at least I could get them and continue on with my Thanksgiving travel plans. Oh, by the way, my original Bridgestone's made it to 28,600 miles - although the threads/treads were showing, so I'm going to say 25K was probably their limit. Only the front ones wore out, the back ones still have some good life so I kept them in place. Dealership was fine with this, by the way. So for those of you with dingy Dunlops, maybe give the Bridgestone's a try. They're about $40 more per tire, but certainly sound better lifewise.
Personally, I think Toyota didn't do their homework and got hoodwinked. I have been back and forth between the dealer and the local alignment shop and have come to the conclusion that there are several factors at play here.
It seems to me that the outer edges of these run-flat tires would be extremely sensitive to alignment because they are so stiff. The tread near the shoulders is held firmly in place by the rigid sidewalls so the outer blocks contacting the road are forced to absorb all the "squirm" that driving dishes out. Usually this squirm is absorbed by a combination of sidewall and tread flexion, but in this case there is minimal sidewall flexion, so the tread block has to absorb all the abuse. But in this case even the tread on these tires is very stiff, so it is going to scrub rather than twist under this heavy beast, and there you are. Perhaps minimizing toe-in might help here, but I am no expert. In any case, be careful that it doesn't affect handling and tracking in a bad way.
Also, for whatever reason, if your car came from the factory with a more camber than it can really handle, or developed it along the way, the tire is going to put all its weight on the edge. The guy at the alignment shop was able to adjust the camber a bit by slightly loosening the attaching bolts on the McPherson struts and quickly tightening them as soon as things started to budge. You don't want to go too far or it will be a lot more work to pull it back rather than just doing it carefully in the first place. This shop had a totally cool laser alignment rack, so they could do that because they get real-time feedback on the alignment. Ma and Pa shops probably won't want to tackle this, and it would take them a lot longer, anyway! I was done in about 20 minutes with their laser setup. I almost felt ripped off it was so quick! :-)
Along these lines, a higher tire pressure should transfer the weight to the center of the tread, away from the evil sidewalls. But higher pressure also makes the tread in the center work harder because the case behind it would not flex as much. Lower pressure would transfer the weight to the outer edges of the tread. The lower pressure would make the tire case a bit more flexible, but I think the sidewall is still too stiff to be forgiving enough to help absorb the squirm.
You decide. If you are reading this and have any experiences along these lines one way or another, please take a moment to share them!
My wife and I looked at both the Honda and Toyota when we bought in June of 2004. There have been a handfull of small issues... loose screws etc. This tire issue is disturbing. We have just 24000 miles and the tires are worn, of course from the outside in. I went to tirerack. com and found a lot of people just like me; with poor performing Dunlaps.
Anyone hear of a class action suit?