1998 Honda Civic VTEC VTI from UK and Ireland - Comments

You should be aware (most people are) that at very high speeds, speedometers are way out, unless you have GPS. In fact try it with a GPS device, it can be found in anything from road angel to a tom tom pocket pc. Il give it 135 at the most, standard because 1.6 vti's will not do 145.

A friend of mine got his 1994 civic vti saloon dynoed and it was showing 173 bhp, its got a exhaust system and air filter. So I reckon honda engines, especially the dohc vtec engines, don't lose any bhp over time.

Because dynos are 100% accurate LOL!!

That said, I plan to get one, but it's still a warm hatch TBH.

I own a 1999 Civic Jordan (limited run of 500, based on the 1.6 160 bhp VTi) and would like to clarify a few things as I am getting very tired of people arguing about who has the better/faster car. All cars have their pro/cons and you should enjoy them for that. People buy what they like and that's what makes us all unique! I say stop fighting and just enjoy them for what they are...

I have a written a review on my Civic Jordan on this site and you'll find it in the 1999 Honda Civic section (all you VTEC addicts will enjoy it!) The Honda VTEC engines are probably one of the best type of engines ever made. Think about it for a moment; many of them can extract over 100bhp per litre of engine capacity without the use of forced induction (turbo/supercharger), whilst remaining extremely reliable for many years of trouble free high rpm use. If you truly appreciate motoring technology you will know that is a tremendous feat of engineering and should be applauded.

People may argue that these are high power, but low torque engines. OK that is true I agree. But in a lightweight hatch with very short gearing low torque isn't a massive problem; the gearing lets you fly through the revs and get into the high rpm powerband very quickly. Think of it as a motorbike engine! People may also argue that this can become tiring as it requires too much effort to get the most out of the engine. But that is exactly why they are so involving and so much fun to drive, as you really have to focus and become part of the vehicle.

Then there's the 'my cars better than yours' brigade who compare apples to pears. OK the Astra VXR, Subaru Impreza WRX/STi, etc are faster in a straight line, but then what did you expect? You are comparing much newer better developed 2000cc turbocharged cars to a 1600cc naturally aspirated hatch. They SHOULD be faster, I should bloody hope so, but the VTi will still give them a good race. If you want to compare something in a similar league look at the EP3 Civic Type R (197bhp from a 2000cc naturally-aspirated engine) and the DC5 Integra Type R (220bhp from again a 2000cc NA engine). These cars are both extremely quick, much more reliable and more involving to drive than other modern hot hatches.

You want to compare turbocharged hot hatches to naturally aspirated smaller engine cars? Race a Honda Civic VTi with a low boost turbo and you may be in for a very unpleasant shock. Turbo VTi's are making 230-280hp on otherwise stock engines reliably all over the world, not just in 1 isolated country. How can this be done you may ask? It is because Honda DOHC VTEC engines have been overengineered from the start. Honda should have made Turbo VTEC from the factory.

Everyone should experience the power of a Honda Turbo at least once in their lifetime: how does the torque of a turbo and the high 8000+ rpm of a VTEC engine sound?

Yes of course the subaru 2.0 turbo etc should be faster, but it was the VTI owner that started the ball rolling saying their 1.6 vtec could keep up.

The only thing that makes a vtec engine powerful is the special high lift cams, which could be fitted to most cars. I've seen amateur tuned Vauxhall Corsa 1.6 N/A pushing 200 bhp from years ago. And the V part of the name just means its variable, so can switch to higher lobes for power and lower ones for economy. But it'll always be easier to fit high performance cams to a turbo car than to fit a turbo to a N/A car.

High lift cams can be fitted to almost any internal combustion engine, but VTEC is not just high lift cams! Like you said it is variable, a Variable valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control system to be exact... basically you have higher lift and longer duration, but also a very high revving engine which peaks at over 8000rpm.

Not every engine can do that. Do you have any idea how much extra stress and strain is exerted on engine internals and especially the valve train at those kind of high revs? The valvetrain and head is specially engineered in VTEC engines: stronger and lighter valves, springs and retainers, high flow ported and polished head on Type R engines, high lift high duration camshafts, an excellent balanced crank and conrod design designed to withstand constant high revs, an excellent oil circulation system with oil jets to keep pistons cool, well designed intake / exhaust manifolds... the list goes on... All from a so called 'budget' econobox!

The two cam profiles are also there for a very good reason, you can't just stick ultra high lift cams in a road car: a low lift cam profile gives a good idle, sufficient torque/power and decent fuel economy and driveability for a road car, whilst the high lift high duration cam takes over at the perfect 5500rpms to produce a very high out put relative to engine size. This dual profile system optimises driveability as a race cam in constant use would give a rough idle and poor low rpm operation, and a constant low cam would choke the engine at high revs... GENIUS!

Fair enough, but apart from the high lift cams and electronic lift control to switch lobes, don't you think most high performance engines have most of the other things you listed? Forged internals, toughend lighted valves, a well designed manifold and exhaust, a well balanced engine and excellent oil circulation are a must on most high performance engines of the 2.0 high boost turbo kind. Yes a constant high profile would give rubbish idle and low end drivability, but that's something some people would put up with if fitting high performance high lift long duration cams. Although I wouldn't personally. I have an 04 STI, it starts off with a respectable amount of power and performance, but its also so easy to get extra performance with just a chip raising the boost. The free PPP with came with it consists of just a chip, high flow exhaust bigger intercooler hoses and this takes it up to 305 bhp.

Why are you even bothering mentioning your Sti in the forum? All negative comments are missing the beauty of the Honda developed engines in the fact that they are able to produce high revs and superb performance without any alterations. I doubt any other car with a 1.6 standard engine can produce the 160bhp which the honda does. As mentioned above slight alterations to the engines of road cars can create power similar to the civic? Well I do not see why anyone would bother with that as in order to legally do that and declare it, it would push insurance costs to ridiculous amounts. Even if you do chip your Sti engine insurance would take the toll. Why must people disagree with the beauty of the Honda engine when it is simply a brilliant piece of engineering? For a well built 1.6 engine with the performance which the honda has is unmatchable by any other and for the price its brilliant. I have seen people who drive Subaru WRX's getting into honda civic vti's and not able to generate good power from it as they are so used to the build and delicacy of subaru engines and are unable, unknown and affraid to push the revs of the honda engine up to unleash the true power.

Although I am saying all this, it is purely in my own neutral opinions. I find both Subaru's and Honda's very well built and love all Japanese built cars and engines, and you can guarentee my neutral comment as I drive a Citreon Saxo 1.1SX, yes I know, get it out of your system, but don't bother commenting on it, I am a "young inexperienced" driver therefore I am unable to get insured on more desirable cars.

To that last comment asking why an Impreza is even being mentioned here.

Its because the Civic owner started it by saying the Civic could match it performance wise.

I recently purchased a 1998 Honda Civic 1.8 VTEC that had an aftermarket turbo fitted. Fairly nippy now! At the end of the day we are all just frustrated that we can't own the 'proper' performing cars lol. My friend recently bought an Aston Martin DB7 to add to his collection. Now that is scary old stuff!