1999 SAAB 9-3 SE from North America - All Comments

I disagree totally!

But don't let that dissuade you from driving your Toyotas & Hondas.

I'll keep my Saab, thank you!

I purchased a Saab 93, 2000 with 139,000 KM (about 88K miles), B205L engine. Shortly after taking it home, I started to smell what can only be described as an oily-chemical burning smell coming in through the vents. I changed the oil a couple of times and the smell would go away, only to come back within a week. I added "stop leak" treatments as I was told from various mechanics that it might be a leak and the smell is coming from oil smouldering on the engine block somewhere. Of course, I tried to find the "leak", but never did. I also noticed that I had an engine whine that would kick in about 5 seconds after the engine started and would last for about a minute.

About three weeks ago, I was looking for the leak again and poked around the PCV system. I had a hose that was slightly more cohesive than play-dough (out the valve head cover), a pcv valve that had seized (blow-through test failed) and a vacuum hose that was also ripped. The I changed all of these and the smell disappeared. I had noticed that the fatter hose that came out of the valve head nipple was loaded with sludge. Obviously not a good sign. The whining sound is still there, but goes away after about 60 seconds of running in idle (as per the link below). This only happens when the engine is cold and has

not been run for several hours. From what I can tell from the saab forums, this is due to a clogged oil pick-up screen and the engine starves of oil for the first minute. There are no engine or oil pump warning lights ever. I

have "flushed" the engine with Pennzoil engine flush twice within 200 KM.

Is the whine a warning of imminent doom? Have any of you had it? Is it too late even now? I have booked my car into the local Saab dealer to have the sump dropped and cleaned.

The link to the engine noise is:

http://www.nikols.741.com/engine.asf

Personally, I wouldn't be dumping "stop leak" into my Saab's engine, or any other such chemicals. You are much better off finding the true source of any leak & then fixing it properly.

There are no short-cuts or magic potions to repair leaks or engine problems. I believe you may actually be costing yourself more in the long-run, than having the problem properly diagnosed and rectified in the first place.

I hope the dealer can assist you.

After owning 3 Saabs before this one without major problems. I purchased a 2000 9 3 3 years ago as a second owner. The car was still under factory warranty when I bought with about 44,000 miles and I've only driven it an average of 8,000 miles a year since then.

Suddenly on Sept. 29 the car stalled and the oil pressure light came on. I took it to a Pep Boys which was nearby because I was terrified to drive it more than a mile or two not knowing what was wrong.

Pep Boys changed the oil and thought that would probably help, but mentioned the heavy sludge buildup and said they'd rarely seen so much buildup. Naturally they asked how often I had the oil changed and I told them every year in the Spring and Fall.

After the oil change my car drove for about 20 minutes without the oil pressure light on and then it began to flicker. This time I took it to the used car dealer that I had bought the car 3 years ago and which is a certified Saab repair center. These mechanics discovered that the inside valve cover and it appeared the rest of the engine; was full of a disproportionate amount of sludge.

This dealer strongly suggested that I contact Saab because he believed it should be covered under their new 8 year extended warranty for this problem. he told me he had several Saab owners he had sold cars to were having similar problems.

When I contacted Saab Customer service they said I could have it towed to a Saab dealership and it would cost me $300 (according to the dealer) to have the car evaluated diagnostically, even though all they need to do is confirm that the first mechanic was correct in his assessment. I was also told though that since I had not had the oil changes with a Saab dealer or didn't have receipts since my friend had done them - Saab was probably not responsible! I was basically dismissed. when I asked to speak to this woman's supervisor, she said she would give her a message and that I would be called back by the end of today. Of course I did not receive that call. I asked for the supervisors phone # and did get it and left a voicemail a short time ago, but I do not feel very comfortable about this customer service supervisor being able to make any kind of decisions in my favor.

This is a dire situation for me. I still owe money on the car and I use it for my work. The fact that Saab is insisting that I do not qualify for retribution because I had my oil changes done by a friend and I don't have receipts seems unconscionable.

Furthermore, I cannot perform my job without a car and I cannot afford to buy a new one as well as take the financial loss of still having a $6,000 balance on this one.

I do have receipts for most normal repair procedures through the local SAAB dealer. It's only oil changes that I took the car elsewhere and for which I would have had no reason to believe that was inappropriate; especially since they were all within the recommended time frame by Saab.

Do I have any hope at all? I definitely want to join the class action suit.

Regardless of what manufacturers might say, to own a turbo and not change your oil every 3 months or 3,000 miles with synthetic oil is just asking for trouble.

4 cylinder turbos work hard & run hot, of course you are going to run into sludge problems if you don't take extra care. Using a high quality oil is extremely important, synthetic is by far the best insurance you have against breakdown & sludge.

You only had your changed oil twice a year. Now you're surprised that your 4 cylinder turbocharged engine has sludge? You shouldn't be.

Did you even check your oil between changes over those 6 month periods???

It's beyond me why manufacturers don't insist on 3,000 mile oil changes. I even do this on my old Wrangler with the bullet-proof in-line six.

With proper care, that 2 liter turbocharged four in your Saab should last at least 200,000 miles.

I own a Saab 9-3 as well and I certainly will never deviate from using synthetic oil and the 3 month 3,000 mile rule of thumb. If this is too much of an inconvenience for you, I would suggest staying away from turbocharged vehicles.

But with all of todays engines, turbo or not, I would suggest following this rule of thumb. Your gas mileage will increase and your engine should last a long long time.

Best of luck getting assistance.

Yep, I'm another Saab Sludge victim. This is my second and last Saab. Engine failed at 65,000 miles and all service was performed in accordance with Saab schedule using Saab Dealer's expensive service while under lease and then local oil change business using only Mobile One since. All records are available, but Saab regional rep denied the claim without even requesting service records. I did have to pay $744 to have the service rep look at it. I'm in for the class action suit, but I don't see any contact point or number in any of the postings. Has anyone made any contact with an interested attorney? If so, post the number or website so we can all get on board.

To the last poster: Saab's expensive service???

Didn't you get free scheduled maintenance for the first 3 years 36,000 miles? How expensive is free???

I hear you loud and clear - you keep telling those of us who have had this sludge problem what we SHOULD have done. And yes, it IS an expensive lesson.

While this is informative, is IS after the fact and quite frankly it isn't addressing the questions a few of us have. I was just hoping to read about other's experience and/or advice dealing with SAAB about this current issue. Trust me - I feel horribly enough.

This is my 4th Saab and my first Turbo. It's certainly my first sludge problem, but I did not seek out a Turbo - it was just presented to me as a good car when I traded in my 900S, If I made a mistake by following the owner's manual and taking it at it's word, then not only shame on me, but shame on Saab. It had nothing to do with "too much trouble" as you infer.

If anyone has any other advice about dealing with Saab regarding this, or the Class Action suit - I am all ears.

And thank you for the advice, but going forward I will of course take heed, but at this point it feels like having a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

I'm sorry, it was not my intention to "poke" you in the eye with "a sharp stick".

My advice would be to continue to call Saab until you get someone who will listen. The biggest problem is not having receipts for the oil changes (the manufacturers seem to love that one), as how many poor customers having fallen victim to that?

In fairness to the manufacturers, I can understand why they need proof, but on the other hand, if there is in fact a problem with a specific engine, they should assist in some way.

Also, I agree, the recommended service intervals are not only inflated, but they are unrealistic and dangerous to engine life. Again, especially with a turbo engine.

Again, try dealing directly with Saab, the class action suit option probably won't get you results, especially as fast as you need them.

To the Oct 5 poster. Not all Saabs came with a "free" 36,000 service. The basic 93 SE had no "free 36,000 mile service". Furthermore, to have my Saab serviced at a Saab service center required taking a day off work and driving 250 miles to the nearest service center or 350 miles to the dealer I purchased the vehicle from. This IS expensive. What you seem to overlook is that there are around 40 postings where people have had sludge related problems and have received nothing but lip service from Saab. Why else would so many people be willing to start a class action suit. I love the Saab for the way it drives and the efficient use of space the hatchback provides, it is why I purchased a second one, but the dismal response of the company to so many people with the same complaint makes me determined to look elsewhere for my next vehicle purchase. The automotive marketplace is a competitive place and according to it's sales, Saab appears to be losing the battle. Replacing an engine is an expensive process, but not nearly as expensive as the economic loss to all those employees when Saab fails. I'll try to find a class action attorney and if I'm successful, I'll post it here. Don't hold your breath though, it's difficult.

Well, I managed to pull together all the oil receipts. Although I had bought the car used, I was able to get the history and the it had been serviced every 10,000 miles up to 30,000 at Saab.

Then after speaking with Saab and explaining that a couple of my oil changes were done free of charge by a mechanic friend of mine, I was told that if I could get receipts that had the mileage, amount and type of oil and filter used, that would be acceptable. Fortunately my friend had kept notes so he was able to provide me with receipts after the fact. So we will see what Saab says about that. I faxed them over today. I will keep you posted.

I am not pleased with the fact that I'm expected to pay $330 for the dealer to diagnose the engine when in fact it was already diagnosed by a mechanic and we were just asking the dealer to confirm.

Regarding my 2000 9 3 Sludge Mobile.

Well you could knock me over with a feather! After fighting with Saab for a couple of weeks after they initially refused giving me any assistance at all on my ruined by sludge engine - I got a call from the Customer Service Supervisor telling me that "Saab will pay for the entire replacement of your engine." $5200 was the quote.

Initially, a regional rep turned it down because one of the oil changes, I'm embarrassed to say, was 11,200 miles past the previous. He actually told the dealer to tell me that's probably what ruined my engine! The exclusions in the Sludge Letter state that the oil must be changed at least every 10k miles. However, I went back and read it again carefully and it ALSO states something to the effect of "at least every 10k miles not to exceed 2,000 miles past the last one".

I called and made bit of noise to two supervisors that I thought it was disingenuous of Saab to state one thing in the sludge letter and then deny my claim when my car clearly fell within their guidelines.

Believe it or not, the Supervisor admitted to me that he didn't even know that was in there himself. Now he took my side and resubmitted it this time, to the *committee*. After a week of reviewing my case (probably trying to figure out how to weasel out of it) - they have said they will honor the warranty.

I'm impressed! If you're fighting the Saab Sludge Monster too, I suggest that you not take no for an answer at first. What worked for me was that I was a very polite, but squeaky wheel. Very squeaky.

One of you posted that after you got your engine replaced, your turbo failed within 6 months and you had to replace that, too. Is there something I should ask the Service Dept about how to minimize the possibility of that happening?

I'm surprised that Saab is paying for the replacement, especially if you did go 11,000 miles without changing the oil.

I wouldn't be calling Saab names such as "sludge monster", you probably did in the engine with that kind of gap between oil changes.

I'm sure it's easier to blame the car, but in this case, you had something to do with it.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but you really need to change the oil religiously.

Point well taken about changing the oil more often.

However, I totally disagree with you that my changing the oil at ONE TIME at 11,000 instead of 10,000 as the Owner Manual suggests is what did in the engine and I am just glad that Saab didn't agree with you. The Warranty Letter that was sent clearly specifies that they will cover a 2,000 mile difference. As I said in my earlier post - if I made a mistake in believing Saab's Owners Manual - shame on me, but shame on Saab for helping to create this problem by giving misinformation in the first place.

Although I came here with the intent to ask for advice and then share my experience, I'm not sure how productive finger-pointing and belittling someone's experience is. Grousing at me seems a bit petty.

Best of luck to the rest of you who have been bitten by the Sludge Monster.

If you only change your oil every 10,000 miles, the "Sludge Monster" looks back at you every time you look in a mirror.

You won't get validation for neglecting your Saab's engine from this corner either.