2000 Pontiac Montana Extended Van review from North America

I have a 2000 Montana that has given me nothing but problems. I have gone through arbitration by the BBB and am now waiting for an answer. But also feel that the lemon laws don't truely protect the consumer, but the company. Why should we have to take a beating for mileage if the company can make a good car. I have found that they don't have to give you a full refund, that they get to take $$ out for mileage and wear!!! In my situation I would never be able to buy a new car, simple because it wouldn't be in the budget after all the money they would take out. Pontiac says there is nothing wrong with my van and that is I'm sure why it is now in the shop to rebuild the engine and repair the transmission on it now for the 2nd time and we only have 40,000 miles on it! Then of course I do have many problems with the smaller things too. My van has been in the shop for now 63 days in 1 and 1/2 years of ownership. If you have any suggestions on what to do please let me know thank you.

This is the info on what was wrong and a small note to Pontiac for them to help.

Sorry it is so long.

1. Time the van has been in for service.

A. Transmission.

B. Engine noise.

C. Air bag light.

D. Check engine light.

E. Power windows.

F. Automatic sliding door.

G. Warped plastic on door panel.

H. Left rear fender scratched from warped plastic.

I. T.V. and VCR repaired twice.

J. Premature tire wear.

K. Battery failure.

L. Gear shifter offline.

M. Rear seat stuck.

N. Rear console lid broken (integrity of plastic).

O. Cup holders front and rear broken.

P. Passenger side door panel loose at top. Door trim clips came apart.

Q. Leather seat scratched by a mechanic.

R. Cover came off rear wiper arm.

S. Trim on the center console came loose.

T. Steering pump noise.

U. Glove box lock broken.

V. Left and right (middle) seat belt malfunction.

W. Adapters for air pump hose broken.

X. Radio light burnt out.

Y. Fog lights and rear tail lights burnt out within one year.

2. Transmission problems.

A. Clunking in between gears noticed first within 17,000 miles. Not noted in service records.

B. Clunking noted by service manager on 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

C. Clunking noted again on 6/6/01, mileage 28,063.

D. Clunking noted again on 8/6/01, mileage 31,635.

E. Clunking noted again on 9/5/01, mileage 33,978.

F. Evaluated by mechanic mid November, learned that transmission would need to be repaired/replaced. Not noted in service record.

G. Went into shop for repair of the transmission 12/10/01. Vehicle still in shop as of today.

H. On more than one occasion van has visited service station concerning this specific problem, but was not noted by service history. At these times we spoke to both the service manager and the general manager concerning the problems with our transmission.

3. Engine Noise.

A. Rough idle noticed within 20,000 miles, not noted in service record.

B. Excessive engine noise noted within 15,000 miles. Noted mostly at first start of the morning.

C. Excessive engine noise noted in service record at 26,936 miles.

D. Engine require excessive cranking before start noted 6/6/01, mileage 28,063. Van was in for the service for 15 days.

E. 12/10/01, Van being serviced for engine noise. Engine will either be repaired or replaced. Estimated cost $5,000. Van currently in shop at this time.

4. Air bag light.

A. Light came on 11/6/00, mileage 17,605.

B. Light came on 8/6/01, mileage 31,635.

C. Light came on 9/5/01, mileage 33,978.

D. Many other times the light appeared on, however service personnel would just turn it off for us. Not noted in service record. They stated the light came on because of towing a 300 pound trailer. Problem was never fixed or investigated. Van has factory towing package.

5. Check engine light.

A. Light came on 9/24/01, mileage 35,073.

B. Light came on 11/11/01, mileage 36,225.

C. Light appeared on several different times that are not noted on service record. Service manager would have a mechanic come and turn it off for us. The service department decided that a faulty gas cap was the cause of the "Check Engine" light appearing. Cap was not ordered, and has not been replaced to date.

6. Power windows.

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605.

B. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

C. 5/9/01, mileage 26,714.

D. 5/14/01, mileage 26,936.

E. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225.

F. Problem with both left and right front power window motors were bad. They had to be replaced along with the windows. They were damaged due to faulty motors causing them to go off track and get scratched. We were informed that only one motor and one window were available to be replaced, but that the other side would be replaced at a later date. Window and motor have not been replaced to date.

G. Currently having a problem a second time with the window and motor they previously replaced.

7. Automatic sliding door (passenger side).

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605.

B. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

C. 9/24/01, mileage 35,073.

D. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225.

E. Power door motor replaced by a factory recall once. The same door currently has a second recall. Has not been replaced to date.

8. Warped plastic on a door panel.

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605.

B. 9/24/01, mileage 35,073.

C. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225.

D. Problem was addressed on other occasions not noted by the service record. We were informed by the service personnel that "We couldn't find anything wrong with it".

E. Currently paint on the left rear fender is worn off due to warped plastic on the door. Has not been replaced to date.

9. Left rear fender scratched from warped plastic.

A. Fender touched up on 9/24/01, mileage 35,073. Before accepting we told the service department that we were not satisfied with the touch-up and that we wished it to be re-done. Scratch was more noticeable after touch-up. Has not been fixed to date.

10. TV and VCR.

A. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

B. 9/24/01, mileage 35,073.

C. TV and VCR replaced on both dates.

11. Premature tire wear.

A. We had to replace tires at 15,000 due to belt separation and uneven tire wear. Pontiac was not willing to replace the tires. Even though the tires were rated at 60,000 miles.

12. Battery failure.

A. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225. Van was picked off from being serviced for an unrelated problem, battery exploded and leaked out acid causing battery failure. Battery had to be replaced by us. Was told by the service manager that we could not be towed by Pontiac when the van was stranded unless we were willing to pay for tow truck costs.

13. Gear shifter offline.

A. 8/22/01, mileage 32,721.

B. Shifter would not allow placement of appropriate gear as indicated on the shifter column.

C. Was fixed by Pontiac. No further problems at this time.

14. Rear seat stuck.

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605.

B. Was instructed by service department that the seat hardware needed to be lubricated. Since lubrication, the seats are still very difficult to remove and replace. Seems to be a problem with the hardware itself rather than with lubrication.

15. Rear console lid broken.

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605.

B. Lid was replaced. The complaint is due to us noticing the overall lack of integrity of almost all the plastic used in the interior. Have had other problems not listed in service record oncerning plastic breakage and warping from the outside temperature in heat.

16. Cup holders.

A. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

B. 5/9/01, mileage 26,714.

C. Both front and rear seat mounted cup holder have been replaced twice due to breakage from normal use.

17. Passenger side door panel loose at the top. Door trim clips came apart.

A. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451.

B. Loose/ broken door trim clips replaced.

18. Leather seat scratched by a mechanic.

A. 5/9/01, mileage 26,714.

B. Driver's side seat was scratched by a mechanic during repairs.

C. Pontiac repaired seat with a "Liquid Leather" type product.

Although we were not happy with the damage to the seat, they did a satisfactory job repairing the seat.

19. Cover came off the rear wiper arm.

A. 5/9/01, mileage 26,714.

B. Cover was replaced by Pontiac during other repairs.

20. Trim on the center console came loose.

A. 9/5/01, mileage 33,978.

B. During replacement of a gear shifter earlier mentioned, plastic on the dash in several places was broken. We were not informed of the breakage, we notified the service department and they agreed to replace the broken parts at a later time.

21. Steering pump noise.

A. Noise in the steering pump when turning was brought to the attention of the service department on every occasion that the engine noise was addressed. This is not reflected in the service record. Problem has not been fixed to date.

22. Glove box broken.

A. 8/22/01, mileage 32,721.

B. Metal used for the locking mechanism bends during normal use.

Service department simply bent the metal back into place instead of replacing it. Problem still exists currently.

23. Left and right (middle) seat belt malfunction.

A. 9/5/01, mileage 33,978.

B. Both the left and right middle seat belts and seat belt mechanisms had to be replaced due to internal malfunction.

24. Adapters for air pump hose broken.

A. 8/22/01, mileage 32,721.

B. We don't know exactly what caused the air pump hose to break, however it was repaired.

25. Radio light burnt out.

A. This problem was never noted on service record. We were informed orally by the service manager that our warranty did not cover interior lights.

26. Fog lights and tail light burnt out within one year.

A. We have noticed that the lighting seems to go out prematurely.

27. Cost to Us.

A. 8/22/01, mileage 32,721. Had to pay $10 extra per day to receive a vehicle large enough to fit the entire family.

B. $400 spent on new tires at approx. 15,000 miles.

C. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225. $65 spent on battery.

28. Days in Service station.

A. 11/29/00, mileage 17,605. One day.

B. 5/2/01, mileage 26,451. Two days.

C. 5/9/01, mileage 26,714. Two days.

D. 5/14/01, mileage 26,932. Two days.

E. 6/6/01, mileage 28,063. 15 days.

F. 8/6/01, mileage 31,635. One day.

G. 8/22/01, mileage 32,721. Five days.

H. 9/5/01, mileage 33,978. Nine days.

I. 9/24/01, mileage 35,073. Five days.

J. 10/11/01, mileage 36,225. 12 days.

K. 12/10/01 - currently in for a service. Currently nine days.

L. Currently our van has been in the service department a total of 63 day on file. However we have various other days that are not accounted for in the service record. We estimate thata nother 12 days should be accounted for in the service record.

We feel that Pontiac has a distinct opportunity to better us and them by using our situation as an example of how they support Military families. We are currently at the E-4 pay grade in the United States Navy. We do not have the money in our budget to deal with a vehicle that has consistent problems. We have basically lost faith in our vehicle because we are worried what future problems may be in store for us. We are also concerned about the resale value of our van because of all the problems it has had. We paid $34,500 for our van not including tax, tag and title.

The only way we were able to purchase this vehicle is from money left to us by the death of a family member. What that means to us is that we could not replace the vehicle if we needed to. We purchased this van because it scored well on Consumer Reports and received a good rating from Consumer Digest. We also spoke to several people who own a van similar to ours and we received good reviews. Our plan was to get the best van available and be able to drive it for 10-15 years.

Currently we have owned the van for less than two years and already we are afraid of how long it will last. We do not believe that our van is representative of all Pontiac Montana vans. However we do feel that the van we purchased has significant problems from the factory.

Please understand that we are not completely dissatisfied with Kelly (now Coggin) Pontiac nor with the performance of the Service Manager and the other service personnel at the dealership. We do however feel that we have been mislead and misguided on what our rights as a consumer are. We inquired on several different occasions what the criteria on the state lemon law. We were told that we did not qualify because we needed to have one particular problem fixed more than three different times. In fact that is not true. Under Florida lemon law a vehicle can be claimed for total of 15 day in the shop in two years. As you can see we more than qualified for that. We also qualify for other laws that protect consumers but we would prefer to settle this with Pontiac rather that dragging this out in court.

We purchased the van in Jacksonville North Carolina. We did not receive an owner's manual at the time of purchase nor were we given any information about lemon laws.

Considering that we are in the military and do not have much of a choice of when and where we get stationed, we fall into a predicament that makes it very difficult to get help with lemon laws and other various laws. These laws could have helped us if we would have been informed properly or if we were still in N.C.

Think twice before getting this van!