I am the Integra owner, and yes I do own one. In fact I'm on my second one. I turbo'd my last one with a t3/t4 turbo running at 8psi and 320bhp.
Personally I don't like the Civic Type R. It sits too high and looks a bit like a people carrier. The UK spec one ain't even got an LSD.
I'm guessing your in your early 20's where you automatically think your car is the best in the world. It, ain't, it's a Civic, get over it!
I am allowed to express my opinion of the GTA and I like it. I don't own one because in my style of driving I prefer handling to comfort and luxury, doesn't mean it's a bad car though.
You're right, I'm 23 used to own a Type R and I didn't think it was the best in the world; far from it. My dad used to have an Evo 360, and has now got an M5, which are true performance cars. I know a good car when I see one; this Alfa isn't a good car simply because it can only go in straight lines and it loses all of its value. Maybe a good second hand buy if you want to spend your life buying new tires and sorting out the electrics.
" I know a good car when I see it "
Well that's your opinion, but the alfa is a better car in a number of ways; you are just ignoring the facts.
I think you will find that it is you ignoring the facts and giving opinions.
I've said that the alfa will lose all of it value. This is a fact that has been proved on every single Alfa that's ever rolled off the production line. So that is a fact.
I've said that it will have reliability problems; again Alfa have the one of the worst reliability records ever, so this is again is a fact.
I've said that it's too powerful for a front wheel drive car, and that it under steers and wheel spins, which has been stated by every car journalist that has driven it, so again this is a fact.
You on the other hand have said that the Alfa has heart and soul, and that it sounds nice. These are opinions; a fact is something that can be proved right or wrong. All of my points can be proved to be right, so they are facts. What you are saying is just your personal opinion, because a car can't be proved to have "heart and soul".
I've already agreed with you god knows how many times about the handling, reliability, bla bla bla. But it's faster than the Type R in a straight line 0-60 0-100 etc. And other ways I've explained, but it doesn't seem to sink in. "lose all its value"??? So you are saying a 2003 Alfa 147 GTA is worth nothing? That's a fact is it? I think you should check your facts young man. I think you've been beaten off the lights by one and now you are all bitter and twisted. Don't kid yourself these are faster than the type R in many circumstances. And they don't sound like a bee in a jam jar.
I've said countless times I don't own a Type R any more. I sold it way over a year ago. The 147 is faster yes, but that's all it has in its favour. Like I have said many times, 999 out of 1000 people would have a Type R over a 147 GTA. Believe me, if I wanted a 147 GTA I could buy one. It's not as if I cant afford one and I'm so jealous I feel have to slag it off; I just don't like it for the reasons I've mentioned.
Part Ex £7,895
Cost New £22,270
That is the Autotrader used car valuation for a 2003 147 GTA. That is terrible depreciation.
Part Ex £8,345
Cost New £15,820
That is the Autotrader used car valuation for a Type R of the same age. So it is actually worth more now, despite the 147 costing £6500 more. The Type R has held its value very well considering so many were sold, and there is now a new model of Civic out, which never helps depreciation.
Really? That's not too bad! It's certainly not NOTHING is it? By the way you were going on made it sound like you couldn't sell it for £100 at a market stall.
I suppose because they have a bad name for reliability, and they are expensive, they don't hold their value like other hot hatches. They are a beast, but a beast that's not always easy to control too, I would think. If the price of one is £22k most people would probably go for the Impreza WRX, especially when it comes with the PPP free (260 bhp), £20k, holds its value better, handles well, AWD. But you can't deny the 147 is a little better.
Been reading some of these comments with disbelief. People, please! Alfa Romeos undeniably have soul and character. As a company they have so many years of sportscar heritage and history, and all the special Alfas make you feel exactly that, special. In fact I would go so far as to say that all Alfas are special, in their own way.
Type R's are undoubtedly great cars, reliable, fast, fun. But Where's the passion? Look, with unlimited funds what car do you yearn to own. A Honda? My guess is that anyone who truly appreciates fast cars, any red blooded male (or female!) would die for a Ferrari. The GTA's provide a lot of the pleasure, visual aural and sensual, that comes from Italian supercar ownership, but they are affordable, practical, and can be used everyday.
To the worldly and wise 23 year old, you say that no Alfa has ever been worth anything, how about the gorgeous 8C's and Stradales etc? I could list endless Alfas that, with respect, I imagine you will never be able afford. And give it 15 or 20 years and then see which is worth more, a GTA or a Type R.
It's the difference between a car one can really want, like a fast Honda, and a car to lust after and be so passionate about, a car that makes your heart warm and your kids so happy when you pick them up from school in it. A car you fall in love with.
That is why, despite being potentially less reliable or technologically advanced in some cases than an alternative Japanese or German car, people with soul LOVE Alfas. The beautiful hand stitched leather interior and the howl from the exhaust make you feel like you're in a Ferrari every day. And talking of Fezzas, now there's depreciation, how about a 175 grand when new 456GT for 30 grand now. Yet I imagine we'd all agree it certainly doesn't mean it's a 'bad car'.
We have a '74 Maserati Indy for occasional use. Unreliable? You betcha. Expensive to run and service? Oh yes. Parts a NIGHTMARE, etc etc.
BUT, does our 5 year old son BEG to be taken out in it, and does it make every journey we do in it exciting and special, and do I look forward to that one day a week when I wake up and the sky's blue and I think, I'm gonna take the Maserati out today? Yes yes YES!
But of course I can't use it on a daily basis.
The most recent cars I have owned as everyday transport have included an S500, XJR, an SL600 and a new Mini Cooper. The cars I've owned for everyday use that have made me smile ear to ear every minute I was driving them were, an '86 BMW M5, Delta Integrale and above all... an Alfa 164 3.0v6. And that's why we are about to take delivery of a 2003 156GTA. I want to be enamoured with my car every minute of every day again. That's Alfa Romeo ownership.
And who gives a F%<£ if it breaks down occasionally.