30th Oct 2009, 08:21
Oh don't start with the recall issues, especially since Ford just issued the largest recall in history! Yes, Toyota slipped in quality a few years back and apologized publicly about it. They are back up now though. They had about the same number of problem vehicles in their line that Ford and GM have good ones now. Mainly the Camry was the problem car.
As far as your past tense comment... Not so much since Asian brands (Japanese and Korean) STILL dominate the top 5 companies for quality. Plus "have been" in that context really means continuing... not really a past tense statement. Nice stretch though.
And I was amused by your "handful of decent cars a decade ago" comment. Honda and Toyota have produced MILLIONS of top notch vehicles for 3 decades or more and have legions of loyal followers that GM and Ford will probably never win back... since GM and Ford have only had a "handful" of cars that are worth anything in that same time period... mostly in the past few years. And what is your point on the Pierce Arrow line? You lost me there.
30th Oct 2009, 08:28
What about Ford and GM who have done away with 1,000's of jobs by sending their manufacturing plants to Canada and Mexico?? They have sent their OWN manufacturing to foreign countries to save money. I had nothing to do with that. Buying a Honda is actually more beneficial to U.S. workers than buying a Fusion that is built in Mexico.
Go ahead, argue that point... still waiting for someone to "justify" Ford and GM on this point!
30th Oct 2009, 08:32
I don't know about you, but I am raising my kids for much more greatness than flipping burgers... or working on an assembly line for that matter!! Not that it isn't an honest living, but I haven't heard too many kids say they want to assemble cars as their dream job along with doctor, dentist, astronaut... etc. etc.
30th Oct 2009, 16:21
Does that mean you buy the your manufacturer's whole lineup, not just one single car when you shop for transportation? I don't have that much space in my garage.
30th Oct 2009, 16:35
"No Japanese manufacturer has the confidence in their products to warranty them for 100,000 miles, as GM does."
It's not confidence. It's an incentive to get you to buy.
And Ford and GM outclass the Japanese brands with ONE VEHICLE EACH. The Japanese brands outclass EVERY OTHER FORD AND GM VEHICLE. The Ford Fusion and the Buick LeSabre (I believe that's the GM model on top right now, but I could be wrong, but I know it's a Buick of some sort) are the ONLY vehicles at the top of the lists.
30th Oct 2009, 19:58
So now 90% of Ford's lineup is one car? You don't believe universities, you don't believe any news, you don't believe JD Powers or Consumer Reports --- but you know that Japanese vehicles from 10 years ago are the best.
30th Oct 2009, 20:39
No it doesn't. I just like to know that the manufacturer I am purchasing from is capable of making a wide selection of quality vehicles, so that I may consider them in the future if I ever needed a different type of vehicle. One single reliable, quality vehicle is of no use to me if I need something with more capability. And actually, I don't even have a garage. =)
31st Oct 2009, 09:57
Sure, that's one approach. This purchasing thing is like playing the odds. Your approach will take you to brands that are in high regard and they will make you pay dearly for your selection.
Another approach is to look for the pearl among the pebbles and pay the price of a pebble for the pearl.
31st Oct 2009, 10:30
I'm not the same person who said they don't believe in news... I don't know who that was, but it wasn't me.
31st Oct 2009, 11:42
I have 3 different new vehicles so I evaluate brand new lineups, not a little sedan.
I have a 2 seat convertible, an SUV and a full size truck, not a 10 year old small import. How anyone does not expect a 100000 mile warranty on 2010 modern vehicles is beyond belief. I quit imports over service costs I should have never paid. I have no issue with old imports I had bought brand new in the 70, 80, 90 years. What happened on quality?
I bought every 3 years so we are talking many new imports over time. I spend 30k, plus I want bare minimum a great engine and drivetrain that lasts at least 50000 miles like our new Legends once did. Our Acuras let us down recently and we went domestic. I attribute the switch to assuming we would keep accepting issues. We left.
31st Oct 2009, 13:56
Dear Mr. Fusion Guy -
If you own ONE item that consists of even one part NOT made in the USA, doesn't that make YOU a hypocrite?
31st Oct 2009, 18:25
"Go ahead, argue that point... still waiting for someone to "justify" Ford and GM on this point!"
The economics of buying from U.S.-based companies has been explained HUNDREDS of times by various commenters on here, by university studies, by prominent economists and in the excellent CNN special about buying from American companies (whether they outsource jobs or not). Import fans either refuse to read, watch the special or even acknowledge that Ford and GM (not Japanese companies) now build the highest quality vehicles. This is a case of a myth that just keeps being fueled by ad hype and millions of dollars spent by Japanese companies to brainwash our citizens. So Ford and GM have (many times over) been "JUSTIFIED".
31st Oct 2009, 22:13
One model may do well last year, and this year be the pig in the poke. Better warranty vs weak no warranty is not getting me back to new imports again.
1st Nov 2009, 10:09
STILL DODGING THE ISSUE HERE... So it is NO PROBLEM to you that Ford gave U.S. jobs away to Mexicans? Or GM to Canadians? As long as the ends justifies the means and you are supporting your "patriotic" domestic car companies? Give me a break. This is so hypocritical. You are literally telling me that the American worker has no importance in the manufacturing of certain car lines and that it is okay for Ford and GM to outsource their labor to cut their costs because University studies, economists and the "excellent" CNN told you so? Who is brainwashed now huh? You better tell that to the factory workers in the closing plants that now have to look at Mexican built Fusions driving around every day because Ford didn't want to pay them to build them.
Oh and yes, the Japanese and every other import car company has brainwashed us by providing superior products for DECADES that far outlast and are much better all around than anything our domestic companies had to offer. Shame on them for giving us high quality cars. Without them we may have never known what a good car was, as GM and Ford have both taken much of that Japanese know-how and put it into their own cars making them better.
Too bad... I really liked watching my Ford rust in the driveway at 2 years old! Those darn Japanese!!
30th Oct 2009, 08:04
Okay 1. ONE Ford car, the Fusion, is on par with the Japanese car quality level and Buick is the ONLY GM line that even comes close to Japanese quality and reliability.
2. The 100K mile warranty has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with GM's confidence. It is a marketing ploy to sell cars and they only did this because Hyundai and Kia were so successful with that marketing strategy. The funny thing is their warranty is still only 5 years, so in all likelihood you would be just as warranted with a Honda as their 5 year 60K warranty covers the average mileage one puts on a car. The ONLY time the GM warranty is any more worthwhile than the Honda warranty, is if you are driving 30% more miles than average per year. I don't know too many people that do that. I'm sure there are a few out there, but not enough to make that warranty a valid increase over Hondas.
If GM had any real confidence in their products, they'd have offered the 10 years that Hyundai does.