26th May 2010, 22:32
The 2009 Honda Accord LX books at $17,750, while the 2009 Fusion SE books at $13,925 right now, as I just booked them both. They were both comparably priced ONE YEAR AGO as new cars, and now they are suddenly $4,000 apart; the Honda being favored. So much for domestic resale value huh? He lost $7,000 or more in one year, when he could have kept that to about $3,000. Not a good choice by any means.
My 2008 Accord actually booked higher than the price I paid for it after a year and 19K miles when I traded it in. Now that is good economics, wouldn't you say? Unfortunately I traded it in on a Focus for fear of losing my job and needing Ford's payment plan, and now I am down over 40% in the first year of ownership... a Civic would not be even close to that amount of depreciation. Argue all you want, but go to KBB.com first and get the facts...
As far as reliability.... type "Fusion problems" into Google and see how many hits you get. They are just as reliable (or not) as any Honda, so there really is no gain there. They have their own building list of transmission failures to compete with anything Honda has.
27th May 2010, 12:05
Type (name your make) into Google and see how many hits you get. This ploy is used to bash all makes, because all makes have issues. The "transmission failure" myth for the Fusion is being spread based on a handful of reports, not thousands, as in the case of Honda/Acura.
As for resale, I helped a friend buy a car last year. He was brainwashed by the "imports have better resale value" myth. After taking the PURCHASE price (NOT list) for both a Honda Civic and a Ford Focus with identical equipment, factoring in 3 years of use and identical mileage, the Focus was a better deal by over $3000. He bought the Focus. If you pay $4000 MORE for a car, and in three years it's only worth $1000 more, you've LOST $3000 any way you do the math.
In addition, the maintenance cost is a major consideration. Our Honda Civic went through brake pads every 20-30,000 miles. Our Fords have never required brake jobs before 80,000 miles (due to larger, better designed brakes).
27th May 2010, 16:22
"Type (name your make) into Google and see how many hits you get. This ploy is used to bash all makes, because all makes have issues."
Yeah, that's my point... ANY car has a slew of issues that you can research on internet forums. The Honda/ Acura problems out number the Fusion, because there are about 20 times as many of them on the road as the Fusion.
27th May 2010, 16:45
Please tell me where the myth was in my Honda booking higher than the PURCHASE PRICE I paid for it after a year and 19K miles. I did the KBB comparison on the Fusion and Accord both based on list price. I got just as good a deal on my Honda as I could get on a Fusion, so I am not sure what your point is on purchase price. Most dealers will give you the car for much less than MSRP no matter what brand these days.
It has actually been proven time and again that a bargain priced car like a heavily discounted Focus will not gain you money down the road. Keeping that in mind I just booked a comparable Civic EX against my Focus SEL, and the Civic books about $5,000 higher, so it actually gained $2,000 over the first year as they were about $3,000 apart when I bought my Focus (I looked at both). Again, where is the myth? Please tell me, as I can't seem to find any evidence against the "imports have higher resale value" fact.
28th May 2010, 13:50
"I did the KBB comparison on the Fusion and Accord both based on list price"
That's where the problem lies. The PURCHASE price MUST be used in order to determine how much (or IF) you come out ahead on a particular car. An excellent case in point is the Focus referred to in comment 12:05 (my comment). The Honda Civic was going to cost my friend $18,000+. The Focus with the exact same equipment was going to cost $14,000+. After three years with identical mileage the resale on a 3-year old Civic was $1000 more than the Focus. However, considering that the Honda cost $4,000 MORE, he was AHEAD after three years by $3,000 by buying the Focus (which he did buy).
People need to realize that if you pay 5 grand MORE for a car and it's only worth 2 grand more after 3 years, you are LOSING 3 grand any way you figure it. Resale values are a very bogus way of trying to justify paying thousands more for imports. You just LOSE that much more over a 3-year period. List prices are NOT valid for true resale values... EVER.
29th May 2010, 10:06
Yes, truly purchase price is where the problem lies, as who knows what kind of deal you are going to get. I know many people who go and pay sticker because they don't know any better, and in every one of those cases they lose on any domestic. You can't go by any supposed "deal" you may or may not get on a car price to quote value down the road.
I have never scored as good a deal on a domestic car as an import, so my experiences are the opposite of yours. Does it mean you are wrong? I guess not if you are getting some phenomenal deal on a Ford. My Focus deal was okay... I got the $2,500 rebate and ended up paying $16,700 OTD after trade in and all taxes. I booked it 8 months later and it came in at just over $11,000 which is almost a $6,000 loss in 8 months (over $8,000 from sticker). The Honda booked out at around $3,000 more and the sticker was around $2,000 more than the Focus for the EX model which was closest. I have an SEL Focus. I don't know what kind of deal I could have scored on the Honda as I was more interested in the Focus due to the payment plan Ford was offering. My last Honda was given to me for invoice though, so I can only imagine this one would have been the same, which would have negated the extra $2,000 between the two cars. Therefore, in my case the Honda would have been the better choice as it wouldn't have dropped 40% from MSRP in the first year, and I would have only paid a couple of grand more for it.
I also mentioned that the Honda I had, which was an '08 Accord, booked higher than my PURCHASE PRICE a year later with 19K miles on it. I paid $20,700 for that car, which stickered at $22,750, and it booked for just over $21K when I traded it in. NO DOMESTIC WILL EVER compare to that kind of resale value.... NONE! The Fusion SE books at about $7K less than MSRP after a year and only 15K miles, as I checked that one recently after reading this thread.
I can tell you this. I was never upside down in my Honda, not from day one, but after the rebates and low financing percentage I am (and always have been) upside down in my Focus. That right there tells me which is the better value!
You cannot compare prices per deal on any given car, because every deal is different. You can only go by MSRP and current value to do an actual value comparison... Like I said, there are many who just buy the car or lease it, and they have no idea how to bargain, so your method is inaccurate overall. The dealers don't even use KBB anymore anyway, as they will generally give you wholesale prices only for any car, so doing these comparisons is really a moot point.