21st Feb 2007, 20:07

It is the overall cost of ownership that makes the domestics BAD value, not good value! Of course they're cheaper; it's a wonder that anybody buys them at what they're selling for now.

I don't know how many times this can be said, but: OF COURSE you have read about a few problems with Toyota and Honda, nothing is perfect, BUT, for every real problem that they each have, Ford and Chevy have 20 problems.

I'm sure that somewhere in the universe, someone is happy with their Windstar, although I have yet to meet this person. EVERY Toyota owner that I have EVER met has been proud to drive them and completely satisfied. There HAS BEEN NO DROPOFF IN TOYOTA QUALITY. If you believe this, then you are mistaken. Period.

21st Feb 2007, 20:42

My household had a mid 80's Honda Civic. Believe me, they weren't what they should have been THEN EITHER!! The Civic had clattering CV joints at 40,000 miles, and a blown engine at 90,000 miles. It was sold as scrap. Our 1990 Dodge went 200,000+ miles with virtually NOTHING done to it. The A/C never even had to have freon added and still worked perfectly when we sold it (still running perfectly) in 1999.

21st Feb 2007, 21:15

Yes. Referring to a movie with extensive computer graphic scenes as proof of how great Japanese cars "really" are. Do you really think those cars were jumping the drawbridge like in the movie? Just because kids drive Japanese cars with giant mufflers and stupid looking wings in your corner of the world, and think they are cool, doesn't mean it is reality everywhere. And yes, Japanese cars are considered effeminate the second you step outside the city limits of suburbia.

22nd Feb 2007, 05:41

10:05 why are you comparing a Windstar or a Blazer to a Camry? Not equivalent. Just like saying Ford F Series sell over 7 times as many vehicles than a Camry per year. #1 Vehicle sold in America for years. But it isn't a Camry equivalent... Look at all the recalls on other Toyota models...brakes, transmissions, air bags etc and this has been of late.

22nd Feb 2007, 06:40

Here's what many car companies can't seem to figure out. If you keep burning your customers with crappy products and do not stand behind them. Guess what you lose them.

For me its Ford and GM. I had both of them and when transmissions, bad paint, bad cylinder heads you name it. So say what you want about Toyota. They make a great product. They earned a great reputation of building reliable cars while they big 3 have a earned a reputation of building cars that break down more often.

22nd Feb 2007, 08:48

Suburbia? I suggest you go to Los Angeles, the car capital of the world and a major CITY, and see all the "effeminate" Japanese cars driven by people of all ages.

And if you knew about marketing you would know that it is IMPOSSIBLE to sell a car in 100,000 quantities if it was "effeminate" since that would preclude a lot of male buyers.

22nd Feb 2007, 11:19

100% right. It's not like Americans suddenly decided they hated American cars for no reason. GM, Ford, and Chrysler are in serious financial trouble because they CONTINUE to make inferior products. These companies are run by accountants, not engineers, and squeeze their suppliers so tight that they get crappy parts for crappy cars.

The Buick LaCrosse is a perfect example. I rode in my friend's new one. Some parts were very well built, like the Mercedes-like kick plates and some of the wood trim. Yet the buttons on the dash were misaligned, there were panel gaps, and the electronic readouts looked like something Coleco made in 1979.

Reviews for the Saturn Aura say the same thing - endless examples of cost cutting in a car that could be very decent if the maker actually cared.

22nd Feb 2007, 11:40

6:40 you should have traded for a 2007 GM or Ford.

22nd Feb 2007, 15:18

"A great reputation for building RELIABLE cars" TOYOTA??? You've got to be KIDDING. Maybe 25 years ago. Not now. Obviously you haven't known anyone with a Tundra, Camry, Highlander or Corolla in the last 10 years.

22nd Feb 2007, 16:29

Re: 20.07.

THERE'S BEEN NO DROPOFF IN TOYOTA QUALITY! "SO THERE" Now that's a bold statement, obviously meant to deter those of us who know otherwise and who can think for ourselves. Kind of Childish don't you think!

Here's a point, Toyota has set a record! They're the number one manufacturer with the most amount of recalls "ever" in one year. Fifteen different safety and reliability recalls worldwide affecting more than eight million vehicles. I'm impressed, Toyota Quality! Wow, kinda reminds me of Ford but no, Toyota is the KING. I think Toyota should provide a "Recall Manual" with each new car instead of an owners manual.

Before making anymore knuckle head comments, why not do some research, maybe then you'll know the unbiased truth.

22nd Feb 2007, 16:37

To 20:07.

You must work for "Car & Driver".

22nd Feb 2007, 17:39



Why? Have they finally figured that they are having problems? Too late. In the last 2 years my Ford has drained me out of 4600.00 in major repairs for a "built Ford tough" E-250. Not including the expected stuff changes; brakes, tires, etc. BTW this truck only has 75k. Before my Ford I had a Chevy Astro van. At 38k my transmission failed. Fuel pump at 51k, and the windshield wiper motor at 54k. Do I really need to go on... Sure... A Ford Ranger that I still own, most of its paint peeled away shortly after its 4th birthday.. Once again; Quality job one.. You see if you take care of the vehicle, the vehicle will take care of you. Yeah right.

All of the these were taken care of and properly serviced, and still major trouble happened.

Just like anyone else, I don't have money to burn.

22nd Feb 2007, 18:44

To 15:18; YOU must be kidding. . All those vehicles, especially the Camry and the Corolla, are the state of the art, industry leaders. Have been for years.

22nd Feb 2007, 18:57

But once the recall is done the car will not have any more problems. I think that's how I would sum it up. At least after the recalls are done you will still have a Toyota engine and a well built car. As for someone having CV boots wrecked at 40,000 miles it could have been bad driving... hitting curbs, etc... my Accord has 200,000 miles on the CV and just now do they have to be replaced. I am happy that the past posters did not mention the Avalon. My uncle has 260,000 + miles on his and has not had problems until now. My aunt had a '96 Corolla and not until 200,000 miles did it need an oil seal (1000 bucks)...yeah maybe I am a little disappointed that it went out that early, but once you drive a GM 3800 (my opinion GM's most reliable engine) you'll find out that the manifold gasket will nickle and dime you.

22nd Feb 2007, 19:30



Yes I've been in a Toyota. I drove one home about a hour ago. Still not falling apart and being towed to the mechanic or breaking down and stranding me anywhere. Nope this myth you people keep talking about... Hmm.. sorry still no oil sludging on my 3.0 v-6 still waiting after 190k...You see it go both ways. I guess a Camry can be reliable after 10 years.