17th Sep 2012, 17:10
By the way - DON'T put words in my mouth.
That's NOT was I was saying, and you have no right to twist my statement to fit your argument. Thank You.
17th Sep 2012, 22:11
Comparing trucks to cars isn't really much of a comparison. But perhaps it's more telling of a shift in driving habits, whereas for years Americans seemed to feel that it was perfectly fine to buy a full sized truck as a grocery-getter. This is a weird phenomena. I can't think of any other country where trucks aren't used for work, but instead as suburban daily drivers. But if they were to shift to cars, the Camry is a good choice anyway.
18th Sep 2012, 08:46
The best grocery getter of all is a pick up. Also, my son just bought a new 4 door F150, and it combines the room of a SUV with a pickup. Great ride and nice for a family. We have a few cars too, but always take the truck shopping.
I didn't see any twists by the way on top sellers. It's facts. If the number one selling vehicle year after year over 20 years is a Ford F Series truck for 20 years, does that mean any more than the Camry comment? Rather than address the comment, it's a import twist rather than a reply, in my mind. I could say the # 1 seller in homes is a ranch house, but I prefer a Colonial. I know it's an analogy, but the same reasoning.
By the way, the topic of the review is a 1971 Corolla. Anybody see one lately? Or a 1971 Celica? I see a lot of 1971 Fords, 1971 Chevrolets, 1971 Mopars, 1971 Pontiacs on the road. True, many are 4 doors, but they are out there.
18th Sep 2012, 08:53
What were you saying? Is it that sales production this year is # 1 on the Camry, so the vehicle is # 1? Does that mean the past previous 20 years based only on highest production #s was the previous winner #1. We are confused, so maybe clearly explain it. Maybe annual production #s do not mean anything unless it's a Camry, with your logic!
18th Sep 2012, 17:33
Comparing cars and trucks isn't very accurate, as trucks are far better built than any car. Also, all Japanese cars have dropped drastically in quality since 2000. I guess no one reads much.
19th Sep 2012, 11:42
Sorry, but it's not really useful to make broad statements that "Japanese cars" have fallen in quality since 2000. But if we're talking Toyota and Honda, then they are still at the top of the list reliability-wise.
19th Sep 2012, 12:44
Please cite some actual facts to back up your claims. Otherwise, your opinion is no more or less valid than any other.
19th Sep 2012, 19:06
Well we used to have cars like the Crown Vic and Caprice that were built as well as trucks. Well they basically were trucks with car bodies.
20th Sep 2012, 10:35
The "facts" are widely available. Just do a search for "most reliable brands, 2012". Easy.
Results:
The top 5 most reliable brands as of 2012 are:
1: Subaru
2: Mazda
3: Toyota
4: Honda
5: Nissan
As far as continuing to mention cars like the Crown Vic and so on, well those cars aren't made any more.
20th Sep 2012, 10:42
After 2000 I had multiple trans failures in Hondas with the VTEC 6. Never went through them the previous 20 years. So we quit buying. I felt it was a dangerous issue with small kids inside on the interstate. That's factual...
20th Sep 2012, 17:00
I'm going to have to agree that Honda and Toyota quality has dwindled in the past. This is not my opinion either. Fact of the matter is that I have been working on cars for many years. Back in the day, the common problems were torn CV boots, oil leaks, starter and a few electrical repairs. Today Toyota and Honda are more plagued with engine, trans., braking, head gasket and air bag troubles.
21st Sep 2012, 14:59
Well, again - the facts are straightforward and were previously conveniently listed above. If the quality of Honda and Toyota had in fact fallen, then they wouldn't still be in the top 5, would they?
21st Sep 2012, 18:01
Yeah, the Crown Vic is not made anymore, so what! As long as they are still on the road (and not going anywhere anytime soon) they can be mentioned, compared and compete with any other car that moves.
Just in case you don't know, the entire Mercury line is not made anymore, but yet you always mention your '55.
22nd Sep 2012, 09:19
They are not a consideration for our household anymore. I'm a faithful repeat buyer from the late 70s to 2004. Every 3 years my wife bought one. Some were so similar looking that it was just a color change for quite a while. We use to possess your mindset too at that time, til quality dropped. That's a lot of years to have been buying new imports, one after another. I drive many highway miles annually; I have yet to replace an engine or trans in any domestic. Keep the oil changed, and I order the heavier duty cooling systems and trans coolers. I never order a 4 cylinder with A/C. I like V6 or V8 with at least 300 HP.
22nd Sep 2012, 09:58
List all the so-called facts you want, it doesn't mean Toyota makes the best cars. If you want to see quality, take a look-see at my 2008 RAV4 thread I posted a couple of days ago.
22nd Sep 2012, 14:29
Talk about not seen any more at all. Has anyone seen any 1971 Toyotas lately?
By the way, I saw plenty of Celicas everywhere in the 70s. I had one new in college in the 70s. Remember it is the car currently being reviewed. Actually I feel my 77 was better made then. I had zero returns under warranty. Even the paint seemed better on my made in Japan model.
The ones I had in the past 10 years were bleak; nowhere near the quality. Sure, you have air bags now, but I am talking drive trains. Anyone else on here that owned brand new 70s Toyotas but me? It seems like a 1990 review on here. And the top 5 in 2012? When I was driving in the 70s, I thought cars would have disappeared in 2000, let alone 2012!
24th Sep 2012, 14:24
I'm sorry, but when basically every single quality reports publication shows the same 5 brands as mentioned above as the most reliable brands, then yes - those are the facts, and yes - Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Subaru, and Mazda all build the best cars when reliability is taken into consideration. Those are simply the facts. Done.
25th Sep 2012, 12:51
OK, you could buy a reliable Checker Cab if that's your solo criteria. Does everybody want one; likely not. What about handling, performance, room, amenities, styling? Rarely discussed. It's MPG and repair, and just drive it.
26th Sep 2012, 11:54
Where are the 1971 Toyotas? Well, that's hardly a legitimate comparison, given that in 1971, there were very few Toyotas in the country, since they were at that time still a tiny player in the industry. Put two and two together: Less overall supply of anything, means there are naturally fewer survivors. But in any regard, nothing to do with this conversation, and as mentioned, the top 5 are as those mentioned.
End of story.
17th Sep 2012, 17:08
Trucks generally sell better because of the commercial applications, but I shouldn't have to explain this to you because you seem to have all the answers... oh, wait a minute! You were being sarcastic! Hahaha!