29th Dec 2006, 16:13
"Wow, as I have said about FIVE TIMES, the reason ethanol is more expensive to make then gas is because not enough investment has been made into it yet!!!"
Nope, there is no way the infrastructure required for ethanol, much less its production, will cause it to be less energy consuming that gas production.
"I'm sadly misinformed? You have given no proof at all that ethanol increases engine wear, because it isn't true and if you had proof of that you would have stated it, so I doubt you have any."
Every auto publication researching the reality of ethanol has stated this to be fact both from their own use of ethanol trucks/cars to that of the scientists actually making the stuff.
"How do you know that if we put more resources into it, it wouldn't be a good alternative fuel? And do you have any proof at all that it's a 'government' scam? Because I think that's just another one of your outrageous assumptions."
Unlike you, I've actually researched this topic so my facts are based on facts.
"So American manufacturers can 'only' build gas guzzlers huh? How much do you even know about American manufacturers? Have you ever heard of a Ford Focus? How about a Chevy Cobalt? Or a Dodge Stratus? Chevy Aveo? Maybe a Chevy Malibu? Not enough?, how about the Neon, Escort, Vue Hybrid, PT Cruiser, Escape Hybrid, HHR, Most Saturn's in general, Ford Fusion, etc. So that argument of yours is out the window.""
I'm sorry, I'm trying to debate you based on what you have stated. I'm not a mind reader. Your ENTIRE argument is that ethanol-guzzing SUVs are the salvation to America's energy crisis. And why you keep bringing the Toyota-motored Escape is beyond me since you keep saying how horrible the Prius is with essentially the same engine.
"You said that a Prius was 'fast' by SUV standards. It's not, I can guarantee that because I've been in many, many SUV's two different Priuses and there is NO COMPARISON between SUV's (except maybe old clunker SUV's that are badly tuned) and Priuses performance wise. I'll be honest I don't know what a 'Tesla' is, but I have a feeling it isn't a viable option, probably a one or two seater, something that will never be accepted, or the whole world would be driving nothing, but them. So why are we even talking about that, because it has no bearing on this discussion."
Go to www.teslamotors.com. It is a reworked Lotus that, yes, does seat two and is not practical. But that TECHNOLOGY that drives it IS, and Tesla's next venture will be a four door car priced around $30K; much less than the ethanol-guzzling Tahoes you are talking about.
For someone who wished to debate energy you don't have all your ducks in a row.
"I guess I'm just wondering why you care so much about dependence on foreign product when you are promoting mass purchase Toyota Priuses which are foreign products. Nice try of turning my argument back on me though! The engine in the Ford Escape is NOT foreign, it is built by Ford, BUT the design is slightly similar to that of the Prius. The Escape is built in Kansas City. However, the Corolla is built in Canada and the USA! That's good. However the Prius is actually made in China! That could explain the bad quality interior, among other things."
The Escape HYBRID, the vehicle we ARE talking about, has an engine built by Toyota since Ford made a decision in the late 1990's that giant SUVs were the future of car making and, surprise surprise, has been caught with its pants down.
The Prius is NOT made in China. Its interior was given less priority since Toyota still loses money on each one sold. There is no excuse for this, in my opinion, but you are paying for the technology.
29th Dec 2006, 17:27
The Prius IS built in China. Just type in 'Prius made in China' into Google.
'Every auto publication researching the reality of ethanol has stated this to be fact both from their own use of ethanol trucks/cars to that of the scientists actually making the stuff.'
'Unlike you, I've actually researched this topic so my facts are based on facts.'
OK, well let's hear some of those 'facts'! I haven't heard you give any evidence for your 'facts', just a lot of opinion. In fact, I'm finding this debate to be more and more a waste of my time, because I'm not hearing you give any evidence for any of you claims! And actually I have done a fair amount of research on ethanol, and if you can get past the big oil company hype, it actually is a very reasonable alternative fuel, not the only solution as I have said, but one amongst others.
'I'm sorry, I'm trying to debate you based on what you have stated. I'm not a mindreader. Your ENTIRE argument is that ethanol-guzzling SUVs are the salvation to America's energy crisis. And why you keep bringing the Toyota-motored Escape is beyond me, since you keep saying how horrible the Prius is with essentially the same engine.'
No, you said that American auto makers could 'only' make gas guzzling SUV's. I was simply pointing out that what you were saying was bogus. And my entire argument is NOT that ethanol guzzling SUV's were the salvation to anything. You said our energy needs would automatically be solved if everybody was driving Priuses and Corollas. I said that was ridiculous. You act as if that's the only option! It's not! The fact is, that's not going to happen! We need viable alternatives that include people driving the normal cars they're used to while being better for the environment, without being forced to drive around in some tiny tin can!
'The Escape HYBRID, the vehicle we ARE talking about, has an engine built by Toyota since Ford made a decision in the late 1990's that giant SUVs were the future of car making and, surprise surprise, has been caught with its pants down.'
No, the engine in the Ford Escape HYBRID, is NOT built by Toyota. Some of the components are similar, but it is STILL built by Ford.
29th Dec 2006, 18:05
Youch! Calm down everyone. I think there are valid posts being made on both sides. Yes, ethanol is a renewable resource, so having it added in gasoline seems reasonable. The Toyota Prius (and Ford Escape hybrid), though not perfect, are definitely a step in the right direction. 0-100 km/h in 10 seconds is no Porsche 911, but it's not that bad either, and it'll be fine for 95% of people's driving.
The real solution is one that has nothing to do with cars. North American cities and suburbs need to be totally redesigned so that one is not a slave to the automobile. Work, residential, shopping and entertainment places should all be walking distance from each other. Public transit should be extensive and faster than driving. The car should be treated as something special- something you take on a trip on the weekend for instance - not something you sit in a traffic jam in for hours on end. Living in Canada, and having visited America, Europe and Asia, I have to say that in North America, we've got city design all backwards compared to other places. Granted the downtown areas of many cities are well layed out, but the suburbs are usually a different story.