15th Aug 2006, 12:38
If you want to blow less carbon monoxide into the environment, but a Prius. If you want a car that'll give you the same mileage without all the potential corresponding problems (batteries going bad, poor resale value) but a turbo-diesel.
3rd Oct 2006, 00:04
Just a note to 28 June concerning the Prius being too light for Maine winters. According to the pamphlet, the 2007 Prius' curb weight is 2,932 pounds. Which I think is heavier than my 2002 Explorer.
We are waiting yet eight more weeks for our new Prius to get here to Oregon. I hate waiting!
24th Dec 2006, 17:23
Hybrids are not the answer.
The manufacturing process is significantly more energy intensive than that of a "conventional" petrol or diesel car, and the Prius puts significantly more CO2 into the atmosphere before the car even touches tarmac.
Then you have the noxious chemicals involved in the battery manufacturing process. There have been various reports on the environmental damage around the factories where these batteries are produced.
Add to that the fact that in use, a modern diesel is just as, if not more economical, faster, simpler, a known quantity in reliability and longevity terms, emits hardly any more CO2, and will be cheaper to maintain and service. A diesel will also return close to its advertised MPG figure (50+ for a typical modern diesel of 2000cc or less) in realistic daily motoring. The hybrids, according to every test I have read, simply do not.
Unless you sit in traffic almost constantly, the Prius has no overall advantage compared with a good modern diesel which is far kinder to the environment when produced. A recent study in the US has shown that over its entire life cycle, including component manufacture, assembly, usage and scrapping/recycling, the Prius actually consumes almost as much energy as a V8 SUV. You have to look at the big picture here.
Knowing which is better for the conscience, and for social acceptability is the key to understanding why hybrids sell. There is no other legitimate reason unless you never stray out of the city, and in that case a pure electric car is just as effective a solution without the added complexity.
24th Dec 2006, 21:41
That's great, so the person driving the slow, ugly and over priced Prius is using as much energy as me in my V8 SUV, hahahahaha! I knew I was better off all along!
25th Dec 2006, 10:11
No, that is simply NOT true because you have to take into account ALL factors, and that includes America being in Iraq and all the endless dollars and energy we have to spend fighting in oil rich countries.
The reality is if everyone drove a Prius or even a Corolla, we would ELIMINATE our ENTIRE reliance on mid east oil, and that alone would dramatically save energy.
If America could generate its own oil you would have a case, but since it does not the argument does not hold up.
27th Dec 2006, 13:10
I don't agree with that. If everyone drove a Poopus or a Corolla, we would still be dependant on oil, and on Japanese auto makers. If everybody drove Ethanol powered cars, like the Tahoe and Avalanche, and used biodiesel in diesel cars, and whatever oil needs we still had we would easily be able to use oil in our own country. I get so tired of libs saying that to solve our energy problem everybody has to drive ugly crappy econo-boxes, because IT ISN'T TRUE! By the way, I've ridden in two Priuses, the old sedan model and one of the new potato shaped ones and found the interior quality to be sub-standard and the power was appalling. If I had to buy a Hybrid it would be the Ford Escape.
27th Dec 2006, 14:43
Sorry, but you should do a little research before posting. We would not be dependent on middle east oil. I'm sure you've heard of it, it's the reason 9/11 happened among other things.
Biodiesel, in its current state, is a scam as it costs more energy to produce it and cars/trucks using get LESS gas mileage and have REDUCED engine life. So your 13 mpg Tahoe suddenly becomes an 8 mpg Tahoe that generates more pollutants (less efficient engine), less power, and more dependence on oil.
And, surprise surprise, your assessment of the Prius is off base. It has more room inside than many SUVs and "big" cars as far as passenger space.
You neocons really need to look at the facts instead of blindly supporting giant dinosaur vehicles that even their makers acknowledge have a limited future.
27th Dec 2006, 17:36
Sorry pal, ethanol is not the only answer to our problems. I live in Minnesota and even here we know that there is no way that ethanol can supply our country with enough fuel. I think the number one state on this issue knows more than you. sorry.
27th Dec 2006, 22:27
"We would not be dependent on middle east oil. I'm sure you've heard of it, it's the reason 9/11 happened among other things."
What the hell are you talking about?
I never said ethanol was the only solution, it isn't, but it's a start. And by the way, ethanol can be made from a lot more products other than corn, including many kinds of grasses, berries, apples, almost any kind of fruit.
"Biodiesel, in its current state, is a scam as it costs more energy to produce it and cars/trucks using get LESS gas mileage and have REDUCED engine life. So your 13 mpg Tahoe suddenly becomes an 8 mpg Tahoe that generates more pollutants (less efficient engine), less power, and more dependence on oil"
*Sigh* The Tahoe doesn't RUN off biodiesel! IT ISN'T A DIESEL! Why do you people want us to stay completely dependant on oil?! Alternatives exist! Even if everyone were driving around in Poopuses and Corollas, we would still be using oil! My point was simply that people don't have to drive a plastic, slow econo box to be better for the environment!
28th Dec 2006, 08:48
I see, so your theory is that instead of driving gas guzzling Tahoes people should driving ethanol guzzing Tahoes. And here is what happens:
- The Tahoe average mileage goes to about 8 mpg, meaning there is a greater demand for gasoline as a blend.
- The Tahoe engines wear out more quickly so therefore cost more to replace AND require MORE energy to produce the new engines.
- Ethanol is barely sustainable in areas where it is sold, and it is simply impossible to create the amount needed to fuel the entire American driving public driving Tahoes.
- Ethanol production uses MORE energy than gasoline production, so it therefore will INCREASE our dependence on foreign oil.
Your solution is like telling a fat person to lose weight by switching from eating cake to eating pie.
As for the Prius, the Prius is NOT slow by SUV standards and, in fact, is faster than many on the road today. And your example of the Ford Escape hybrid is driven by... a PRIUS-based ENGINE. Oops, another of your theories out the door.
And check out the plastic content of your Tahoe vs. that in a Corolla. And then check out the 0 - 60 times of today's compact cars. Your theories on that are based on 1975 figures. Get with today, man!
As for the British poster, Americans currently dislike diesel so hybrids are the only current solution. As you can tell by these posts Americans insist on driving gas guzzlers to commute with, get groceries, and lots of other tasks that only involve one driver. Diesel is currently more expensive than gasoline, so when Americans go to fill up their must-have SUV they are looking to cut costs. That's why you see cheap gas stations like at CostCo with lines around the block full of Expeditions, Tahoes, Escalades, and the rest.