4th Feb 2007, 15:15

I think comment 10:51 says it all VERY WELL. I haven't read in ANY of the comments that anyone thinks synthetic oil is the same as organic oil. I also haven't seen any explanations of what "training" is required to remove an oil plug or filter, or why BMW engines are (apparently) so incredibly fragile that they will self-destruct in 10 miles after being fueled with the same fuel a well-built domestic will go 200,000 miles on without a complaint. I'm also still rather suspicious of this whole "bad gas" thing. NO station could stay in business more than a WEEK if their fuel damaged cars. We had a situation locally where a station's holding tank was accidentally contaminated and within 15 MINUTES of the first customer complaint the station was SHUT DOWN. In addition, the station was held liable for cleaning the fuel tanks of all the cars that had filled up with the contaminated gas. I strongly suspect BMW dealers may simply be passing the buck by telling gullible owners that their rather fragile engines were damaged by "bad gas" rather than just breaking down. As for a rental agency unhooking a battery to reset a computer, it's interesting that that should be brought up, as the only person I know of personally who ever did this was a PRIVATE OWNER who was selling his car!!(you know, those saintly private owners who NEVER allow their teenagers to drive their cars, ALWAYS take them to a mechanic with a doctorate in mechanical engineering, and are ALWAYS scrupulously honest).

4th Feb 2007, 15:51

<< The 12 domestic vehicles that went to over 200,000 miles that my family has owned will attest to that>.

Really? Those cars had fuel injection and OBDII? Doubt it. American cars are built to the cheapest standards, and the engines they use are archaic in design.

And you've also made an argument against your compadres here who claim you must use synthetic.

BMW and other great cars are like great athletes. You feed them garbage they perform like garbage.

4th Feb 2007, 16:00

No, the Geffen Good is for American car buyers who are suckered into thinking their cars are good and believing the marketing myths that all gas is the same, all engines are the same, and all oil is the same.

BMWs DO require special tools for oil changes, but I never said you couldn't change the oil yourself. In fact, many members of the BMW Car Club do a lot of their own maintenance. BUT they KNOW what they are doing and have been TRAINED on how to do it. The argument you people make is that any idiot can change the oil in any car without any prior knowledge, and that is so wrong I can't begin to tell you.

And BMW engines are hardly fragile. If that was the case you'll have to explain why the German police use them on the autobahns.

But explaining what is required to own a good car is far beyond the scope of the average American car buyer, people who treat their cars as an extension of their kitchen appliances.

4th Feb 2007, 16:42

Believe what you want. And, hey, bet you can live to 100 by eating McDonald's, too.

And you people STILL have not explained how knocking and pinging can exist if all gas is the same. You'll also have to explain why oil companies promote detergents in their gasoline that clean fuel injectors. More marketing hype, eh? Oh, and all these amazing domestic cars you are talking about all have OBDII?

But you people have proven the story about why the Pantera did not sell well through Buick dealerships.

4th Feb 2007, 17:00

Funny, a two-second Google search blows your claims out of the water.

Here are just a few of the sites I found. Guess you'll have to explain how, if all gas is the same, all stations are great, that this could happen in well regulated America. After all, there is no such thing as bad gas, eh?


http://www.aa1car.com/library/us10325.htm (this one I particularly love as it tells how gas stations screw over customers by giving bad gas - something you people say never occurs)

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Fuel/grades.htm (this one talks about how low grade gas leaves deposits in your engine - oops, another of your arguments blown out of the water)

5th Feb 2007, 05:20

"No, the Geffen Good is for American car buyers who are suckered into thinking their cars are good and believing the marketing myths that all gas is the same, all engines are the same, and all oil is the same."

Alright, it's clear that you don't understand and have never heard of this concept at all, and have been reduced to tactics of "I know you are, but what am I?" Believe what you want. You also apparently failed to grasp the full weight of the statement about "the dozen domestic cars that went over 200,000 miles." The point is regarding the longevity of American cars. You can say they are archaic, you can moan about them not having fuel injection, but it doesn't change the FACT that this family with a dozen +200,000 mile cars represents a typical cross section of reliable American cars. Cars that run with simple maintenance, and don't need mysterious "special tools" or "special training" to change oil, and, unlike your precious BMW, are not so fragile that they will fall apart if you use Valvoline 10W-30.

5th Feb 2007, 08:49

I've heard these same stories since the 1970's - about how superior and wonderful American cars are.

The reality is that they are not, and the state of the US auto industry today proves that in spades. Any auto manufacturer can turn out a few working models among the horrible ones. Just look on this site about people raving about the quality of their Yugos and similar cars.

But the FACT is the American car industry only survived on protectionism, blind patriotism, and excessive spending on marketing. If you actually knew the history of the auto industry you would know this.

5th Feb 2007, 13:11

Very interesting. American cars are built to the "cheapest standards" and are of "archaic design", yet they routinely perform better and last longer than foreign cars costing THREE TIMES as much, as well as NOT requiring oil manufactured in sacred plants and blessed by priests (and changed by doctors in engineering) and running on "bad gas" their entire lives. I think we'll just keep driving our Buick. I'm sure the "bad gas", cheap oil and Jiffy Lube will do it in at some point, but after the 270,000 miles it has gone without a problem I won't complain. Oh, and did I mention that it is one of those horribly abused, inferior RENTAL CARS??

5th Feb 2007, 16:15

I've been driving cars (all domestics except for 2 Japanese and 1 German) since 1959 and have always had excellent service from all of them. I've never heard any of them "ping" so I assume only BMW does this. At any rate, we have driven all over the country, used every conceivable type of gas, used mostly cheap oil and had it changed at places like the much maligned Jiffy Lube. Since many of our cars went WELL over 200,000 miles (except the imports, NONE of them lasted that long) I must assume that those archaic domestic engines are QUITE DURABLE.