6th Apr 2007, 15:48
I'm not criticizing anyone other than the employees, mostly the higher-ups that run the place, at GM and Ford.
First off, it has nothing to do with being patriotic, or being a loyal or disloyal American. It has to do with the fact that the Big 3 don't build quality vehicles for the consumers that put them on top. It takes a lot to earn trust and a lot to keep it. Chevy and Ford have lost the trust of the public because they rip them off with sub-par cars and trucks.
Patriotic Americans, many of whom work hard for their money (myself included), will of course spend it on a reliable Toyota and not want to throw it away on a cheaply built Ford.
I have a good friend that drives an '06 Dodge 1500 truck. Just today, I dropped him off now for the FIFTH time at the dealership in less than a year for recalls and problems. First, it was for recalled faulty airbags and seatbelts (great, huh?), then for a recalled wheel bearing, and most recently, I dropped him off TWICE because his air conditioning didn't work because the vent damper stuck shut. And I did this in a 10 year old Tacoma that has NEVER had a problem, and runs and drives smoother today than his truck did in it's first 100 miles.
No amount of flag-waving or talk of patriotism is going to change the fact that his Dodge truck is a piece of crap. He's always been a big fan of domestics, and of Dodge especially, and I can see his pride take a hit every time I deliver him to the dealership in an old Toyota, to pick up his new Dodge.
Finally, he has come to the realization that he would have been happier and better off with a Toyota, and I'm sure his next vehicle will be. The Big 3 lose yet another customer because they don't care enough to build something good for the people that support them.
7th Apr 2007, 13:36
To 15.48 You just don't get it! There's nothing wrong with the today's domestic brands. There as good a value as any Japanese offering and in my mind, better!
I'm sure the folks at GM, Ford & Chrysler will enjoy your criticism. My neighbor works for GM, he's been there since the seventies and has seen over a hundred thousand workers lose their jobs because of our governments pandering to Japanese manufacturers.
It's easy to say you offer better made vehicles when you only pay your employees half of what our domestic manufacturers do, and don't blame the UAW. These folks spend what they make and that's good for you and me. How many municipalities lined up to offer Toyota and Honda free land and zero taxes just to build a plant in their back yard. I didn't see the Big 3 offered any breaks. Don't think the Japanese haven't taken advantage. I wonder how competitive they'd be on level ground.
We've all heard the stories about somebody that someone knows who's sorry they ever bought a domestic vehicle. I've owned Japanese models back in the eighties because there were no similar domestic offerings or reliable European offerings. I wouldn't say that these Japanese vehicles were any better than domestics I've owned, they broke down and cost money to fix, but I understood that.
Shellacking all domestic brands as junk is fact-less and offers no credence to your argument. I'm sure there's folks out there who're sorry they ever bought a Toyota or Honda and can tell stories about a friend who owns a Tundra that's been subject to fifteen different recalls or a Honda that has an odometer that records more mileage than actually driven.
I drive a Chevy because I know true value, not because I've been brain washed. I'll buy another and another and another because I believe they're the best.
7th Apr 2007, 16:03
13:36, No, I do get it actually. That's why I steer clear of Big 3 products. You go right ahead and believe whatever suits you, and buy Chevy's until the sun explodes. I like to drive cars that time has proven to be reliable. I stand by the comments I already made, because they're true.
8th Apr 2007, 09:20
When GM was looking for a place for their Saturn plant, FIVE governors were offering endless subsidies to get the plant to come to their state. These same governors were even on Phil Donohue begging GM to come there.
And that's just one example.
But don't worry, These days the domestics are closing plants since they can't compete. Meanwhile, Toyota just broke ground on another one.
8th Apr 2007, 10:54
Read the book "Rivethead" about assembly line workers in the 1970's and early 1980's and then get back to us about why the domestics lost market share.
Funny how being drunk and high, not to mention having no quality controls whatsoever (the book points out where one Suburban got 10 rivets on a certain panel, another got 3 - all dependent on how sober the worker was) leads to class leading vehicles - NOT.
8th Apr 2007, 10:57
<<Shellacing all domestic brands as junk is fact-less and offers no credence to your argument. >.
You mean JD Power, Consumer Reports, Edmunds, Intellichoice, and the rest have been "shellacing" all these years?
Wow, I never knew that.
I guess the fact that American cars PERPETUALLY dominate the "used cars to avoid" ratings means that they are in no way junk.
9th Apr 2007, 10:22
10.57 Arguing for the sake of arguing makes no sense. J.D.Powers rates the Ford Fusion as a better buy than any Honda or Toyota. So, why are you commenting on the Cobalt site, why not go and fixate on Toyotas' or Hondas' site.
9th Apr 2007, 11:05
Sorry, but "your daddy" allegedly fought for FREEDOM, and that means the FREEDOM to NOT buy shoddy goods from domestic manufacturers.
And drop the patriot act. Toyota and the rest do NOT pay slave wages, and especially when you compare them to Wal-Mart - America's LARGEST employer by far.
People like you and your father are all gung ho about American capitalism UNTIL suddenly it doesn't work for you. Then you suddenly take a totalitarian stance guilting people into "buying American".
And I dare you to tell us how many American-made goods (including the computer you are accessing this site with) you have in your house right now.
9th Apr 2007, 16:27
Why are you commenting on the Fusion on a Cobalt site? You are simply avoiding the issue. Explain to us all why the MAJORITY of used cars to avoid are American, and the Cobalt and Aveo are heading in that direction as well.
But I do see your point. Discussing the Cobalt in a vacuum is the only way someone could possibly think it was in any way a superior car.
9th Apr 2007, 16:48
10:22 EVERY publication out there, not printed by one of the car manufacturers themselves, that rates or reviews cars, has put Toyota and Honda, as a whole, FAR above Chevy, Ford, or Dodge as a whole. Like it or not, that is the way it is.
The domestics might put out an occasional car or truck that gets a decent rating, but as a whole, Japanese auto manufacturers come out on top EVERY year.
And please, to the Big 3 fans out there, don't say something dumb, like "prove it". All you have to do is go find a stack of back issues of any one of these magazines, and READ THEM!! I don't care which one: Road and Track, Car and Driver, Edmund's, Consumer Reports... whatever.
I don't care how many stories people type in here saying how ALL of their domestics were perfect, and all got high mileage, and how any of the imports they might or might not have actually owned fell apart early. There are too many factors to consider. It doesn't matter how many people say they saw their 'neighbor's' Honda being towed away. There is no way to prove ANY of this.
But for all of the REASONABLE people out there who want to know the truth; DO THE RESEARCH. It's all there in black and white for anyone to read. Japanese made automobiles are rated to be of higher quality, better reliability, MUCH better fit and finish, and a better overall buy.
It makes me laugh when somebody writes in to say that ALL of these magazines are somehow biased, or that the people that work for these publications that test the vehicles don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, o.k., well I'm sure I'll just disregard all of those people and believe the one guy that says everybody else but him doesn't know what they're talking about.
The Japanese make better cars than we do, people, that's a fact. READ THE FACTS. Aside from all of the other political garbage that gets printed here, such as how many jobs Toyota or GM provide people, or what they pay, or what it does to the economy, or WHATEVER, when you get past all of that crap, you are left with this: Japanese automobiles are better built than ones built in the United states by American workers.
I would love it if I could buy a Ford, knowing that it was properly built, by Americans in the United States, and be proud of that. Maybe that was true 50 years ago, but not now, and not for the past few decades.
The best vehicle I ever had was a Toyota Tercel, built in Japan, and the worst was a Ranger built in the states. Again, do the research, and unless you have too hard of a head to admit it, you will see that this is the case.
3rd Apr 2007, 14:57
Remember the domestic buyer motto: Never do any research or listen to anything bad about any domestic car before buying.