2008 Honda Accord EX from North America - Comments

"That's because some of us think that the experiences of hundreds of owners are more conclusive and accurate than the ramblings of an uncle as a research source."

I've researched that way too, so not only do I have the ramblings of an uncle as my source of research, the vehicle I've owned has very FEW sad faces ;-)

" CR simply compiles data from actual owners and compares it to the average vehicle (for reliability info)."

The part of Consumer Reports that is doing the collection and analysis of reliability data is the part that I have great respect for and I rely on. Fortunately CR passes that on relatively directly and it is very useful to us consumers.

But there is also the part of Consumer Reports that has to write interesting stories and entertain people. Whatever they can do to keep those subscription dollars coming in.

I know this is ancient history, but the market place realities of where CR is trying to survive are largely the same as when they were involved in the libel lawsuit with Bose Corporation. Before suing CR, Dr. Amar Bose met with the editorial board to see why his speakers had gotten such bad reviews. The head of CR asked him, "Dr. Bose, why do you think people read Consumer Reports?" Dr. Bose replied "I suppose so people can make informed decisions." The head of CR then replied, "No Dr. Bose. People read CR because they want to be entertained. They want to read that you can buy something for $10 that is just as good as what someone else paid $500 for." Twice CR lost the libel lawsuit because it was proved they made harmful false statements in print and they had done no objective testing before making the claims. But CR won at the Supreme Court level because Bose was not able to prove that CR intended to harm Bose. (That is US law, in the UK intent is not needed to prove libel.) I got this out of either Stereo Review or High Fidelity magazine from the mid 1980's. Like I said, it is ancient history, and CR has changed a lot since then and it is more responsible. But if you are looking for it, you can still see at times when the entertainment mission is there.

There is absolutely NO substitute for actually owning and driving vehicles to determine the reliability and build quality. Since 1972 my family (including siblings) has owned over 45 domestics and 8 imports (or cars built by foreign-owned companies). NOT ONE of the domestic vehicles ever required a major repair to either the engine or the transmission. This includes several with well over 200,000 miles. Of the imports, NONE made 100,000 miles without a major engine or transmission repair or replacement. This includes 2 Hondas, 2 Toyotas, 2 Mitsubishis 1 Mazda, and 1 VW. So you'll excuse me if I seem a bit skeptical of the so-called "superior" Japanese cars.

As for the big, rear-drive, fully-framed Ford Crown Victorias and Mercury Marquis, they are virtually indestructible. There are thousands of these cars on the road with well over 200,000 miles on them. They are also some of the safest vehicles ever built. If you ever saw a crash between a flimsy Honda and a Crown Vic you'd be afraid to ever ride in a Honda again.

"bought a 1999 S-10 pickup. This is GM's last chance to make me a domestic consumer again, otherwise I'm done with them all. The build quality of the 1999 seems much better than previous models but we'll just have to see if that means anything."

Yikes!! I hope this truck does well for you but... the S-10 has one of the single worst repair records for any automobile. Check out CR or anyone who has long term studies. Just so you know, I'm neither a blind domestic or blind foreign fan. I'll buy either. Trouble here is that you happened to hit upon the single most trouble-prone domestic that has been manufactured in the last decade. I have the 07 buying guide open here. They don't have data for 99 but they do have data for 98. It was much worse than average in the following areas:

Engine

Cooling

Transmission

Drive system

Fuel

Ignition

Electrical

A/C

Suspension

Brakes

Paint/Trim

Body integrity

Body hardware

The only areas in which it was rated as average or better were power equipment and exhaust. Recent Silverados have been rated as average or above average. Malibus are looking to be above average. Something like 90%+ of Fords are average or better.

I understand your point that ANY domestic should be able to serve as a representative ---- if they are any good, but that's not even true of the Japanese companies. If you bought a Titan, you may think that all Japanese vehicles are no good. This is also the case with the 07 Tundra, 07 Camry, any year Armada, and some of the Honda Odysseys with their transmission and cooling troubles. No matter who you buy from, the vehicle may not be representative of the products of an entire region. Treating a '99 S-10 like a reasonable sample is like saying that Pee-Wee Herman was a good representative of manhood. I honestly hope that your truck outperforms the average. Best of luck to you.

We've owned so many domestic vehicles over the years that were rated "Worse than average" or "much worse than average" that we just laugh about it. When we used to buy used cars we'd choose from the "much worse than average" models because they sold for thousands less. In spite of the (obviously bogus) "much worse than average" rating, not a single one of our domestics (new or used) EVER had a major problem, and none of the indicated "problem areas" (as listed in comment 09:40) EVER proved to be a problem.

We DO pay attention to CR ratings (that's why we bought a Ford) because any time an AMERICAN car gets a decent rating from CR, it has to be built by angels and personally blessed by God. Japanese cars have always gotten a free pass from them.

"If you ever saw a crash between a flimsy Honda and a Crown Vic you'd be afraid to ever ride in a Honda again."

Too bad that I don't purchase a vehicle anticipating a crash. Perhaps you should look at the data over the last few years on an Accord, not too bad. However, look at the risk for a fire if a Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is in a crash, frankly, I wouldn't want to take a risk just "wondering" if it may happen to me. Crown Vic/Grand Marquis is about to be discontinued because they are outdated design-wise and don't even offer curtain airbags, showing their age. I'll stick with a Honda and say screw Ford.

"If you bought a Titan, you may think that all Japanese vehicles are no good. This is also the case with the 07 Tundra, 07 Camry, any year Armada, and some of the Honda Odysseys with their transmission and cooling troubles."

None of these vehicles mentioned with the exception of the Camry are true Japanese vehicles. That's the problem with advertising, many people don't know which Japanese vehicles are truly Japanese. I wouldn't buy any of the vehicles you mentioned with the exception of the Camry with a 'J' in the VIN. I hope I have one of the better than average vehicles too because if I don't, I will NOT be buying a domestic vehicle again.

To 13:49:

Right on! I've been promoting CR data on here but haven't talked much about the rest of the publication. I'm very cautious about publications that test drive cars and then compare them to some idea of the "perfect vehicle" in their collective imagination.

For example, "Car and Driver" seems to rate every car on how close it comes to the BMW M3. But every vehicle isn't designed with sporting intentions. Not only that but most customers are looking for something else. So... does C&D downgrade a Freightliner for its acceleration times? I ask that to demonstrate the relative absurdity of looking at all vehicles through one lens.

Likewise CR seems to have some kind of idea of perfection as well. For example, they always say that the Jeep Wrangler is too rough, unrefined, and "too true to its roots". But they say that without looking to what the manufacturer's INTENT and MARKET was. Speak to a Jeeper and the rough ride, the lack of refinement, and retro tendencies are EXACTLY what they want (many even say that the new ones are TOO refined).

Likewise a couple of years ago they said that the Impala SS spun its wheels too easily!! Ummm...that's because it has power. Some buyers are looking for that.

I suspect that CR's ideal is something like a Honda Fit or a hybrid of some kind. Anything that has a mission very far afield of that is viewed through a critical lens.

What they should be doing is determining what the intended purpose of the vehicle is and rating it on how well they believe it achieves that mission.

I don't mean to be overly critical of "Consumer Reports". They are just making the same mistake that many publications do. Indeed, it's me who has been promoting their data here on the forum. But their vehicle reviews are different than their repair data. The repair data is just compiled from owners. Their vehicle reviews are done in-house and are based on test drives. The repair data section should be taken very seriously. The vehicle review should be seen as more like an opinion.

Your own test drives should tell you whether or not the vehicle suits your needs. No magazine can do that for you as many here have pointed out. But pay attention to CR's reliability ratings... because it's THAT area where they shine. There isn't another reporting agency that has the credibility and large-scale information along with the method that breaks the data down into usable categories. I'm a member of Truedelta.com as well, but CR still remains special because of the sample sizes and data handling involved. It's a class act. But the ultimate determination of which vehicle best suits your needs is your decision. It's just best if that decision is an informed one.

"Japanese cars have always gotten a free pass from them."

I agree if you're talking about their vehicle reviews. If you're referring to the repair data, you need to take up your gripe with the thousands of owners who returned surveys. Plus, if you want numbers rather than symbols, truedelta.com can give you that as well. The info is all available and the methods are reasonably transparent... so if you want to claim bias you should call your lawyer and bring a suit rather than taking pot-shots anonymously on this forum. Hey, I'm sure the "Big Three" would be co-plaintiffs and even pay for your representation... if you had any proof.

It's true that over time all vehicles have become so reliable that even a "much worse than average" may still only amount to a relatively small percentage of vehicles with a problem. But the claim that Japanese vehicles are just getting a "free pass" is unfounded -- even if you garner some support here on this thread.

"None of these vehicles mentioned with the exception of the Camry are true Japanese vehicles. That's the problem with advertising, many people don't know which Japanese vehicles are truly Japanese. I wouldn't buy any of the vehicles you mentioned with the exception of the Camry with a 'J' in the VIN. I hope I have one of the better than average vehicles too because if I don't, I will NOT be buying a domestic vehicle again."

I've read comments to that effect before, but I've never found a reporting agency that said that the ones built here were any different from the ones built in Japan. In fact, I've heard the opposite. Can you enlighten me?

My family has also owned a number of vehicles that were panned by the "experts" as terrible. I also don't get it, because these cars were great! Chief among them, the Plymouth Volare -- great cars.

That's why when I use the consumer reporting magazines, I look ONLY at mechanical reliability ratings. All the rest about handling, interior design, quality of interior, etc., is just the subjective opinion of somebody.

I agree with the other person --- any car other than a BMW M3 is going to be reviewed as lacking in some category. Well, a Dodge Caliber isn't a BMW, nor does it have the price tag of one. If movie and book reviews are any indication (not to mention my own experience with vehicles), I never agree with the professional reviewers. And I've never been disappointed with my choice to buck the experts' opinions.

I read in one of the car magazines that all the production equipment used on the Crown Vic was paid off years ago, so it is really profitable to keep making them. And there is a loyal, although small, following for it. One car magazine estimated the manufacturing cost of a Crown Vic at about $9000.

Another example of a car that was outdated long before they stopped selling it was the Oldsmobile Cutlass and for the same reason, the manufacturing cost was low. The GM product planners hated it for outdated it was and the bad impact on brand image, but every year the clever guys at the factories found ways to cut the production costs lower.

I read somewhere that what is finally going to kill off the Crown Vic is the new roll over safety standards coming in effect in a few years. Too expensive to upgrade the structure relative to the projected sales. If it weren't for that, the taxi and police car sales could keep it going much longer. I could be wrong about that though as I do not recall the source.

"I've read comments to that effect before, but I've never found a reporting agency that said that the ones built here were any different from the ones built in Japan. In fact, I've heard the opposite. Can you enlighten me?"

Sure! 1998 Honda Accord LX (manufactured: Sayama, Saitama, Japan), 4-cylinder, bought brand new by my sister, always maintained, only problem timing belt changes every 90K miles, 303K miles.

She bought a 1994 Accord EX-V6, brand new (manufactured: Marysville, Ohio), maintenance performed regularly. Radiator blew, 102K, control arms (112K), head gasket (130K), master cylinder (142K), 02 sensors (144K), fuel pump (149K) and again at (158K), transmission (163K), transmission (170K), Radiator (176K), slip differential (178K), car retired.

When she bought her 2009 Accord EX in Dec., she searched the dealer with a fine-toothed comb making sure to find a model with the 'J' and is loving it.

Japanese actually use quality control at their manufacturing plants there unlike the 'Japanese' plants here. Those made here are American cars with Japanese names.

"She bought a 1994 Accord EX-V6, brand new (manufactured: Marysville, Ohio), maintenance performed regularly. Radiator blew, 102K, control arms (112K), head gasket (130K), master cylinder (142K), 02 sensors (144K), fuel pump (149K) and again at (158K), transmission (163K), transmission (170K), Radiator (176K), slip differential (178K), car retired."

Ouch!! Sucky experience. Is there any large-scale data on this? Most comments on here are smaller-scale-based so I prefer when someone has some study or other. Anything that you're aware of?

Our 1990 Honda WAS built in Japan, DID have the "J" vin code and was still a total disaster. All Japanese vehicles, whether built here, in Japan, or in hollow trees by little elves, are still grossly over rated. We now drive only Ford or GM.