2008 Honda Accord EX from North America - Comments

"Unfortunately, buyers of foreign cars don't understand that companies based in the U.S. are the backbone of our economy."

We lose the backbone when the U.S.-based companies lose the faith of their consumers.

"If any ONE of the Big Three should go under, the financial repercussions for the country are too dire to imagine. "Yes, you are free to turn your back on America and buy from a foreign manufacturer, but even owners of vehicles made by foreign-owned companies will suffer the consequences of a depression right along with those of us who tried to support our country."

With this reasoning, why buy an American vehicle then, since a depression will affect us ALL? People need to quit with all this "patriotism" stuff. I work, pay taxes, and a I'm law-abiding citizen, own a home, support the U.S. economy each and everyday. I work and will spend my money as I please. I don't have to stand behind companies that have mismanaged and trailed the competition for more years than I can count if I don't choose to. You have the same right, but please don't tell people they are not patriotic because they choose to purchase a vehicle with a foreign name. I love this country and many aspects about it but the American car industry is NOT one of them.

1:14 those days still exist, maybe more so with both domestics and the imports. Many young guys in clubs share and split their knowledge to heavily

modify Hondas, Integras etc.... my young son did 95 Mustangs spending weekends with friends (1000 in his Mustang club) heavily modifying their engines going from one home garage to another. Pulling off stock parts selling on ebay and working to buy performance upgrades. The newer cars are usually not breaking... it's constant upgrading. And these cars both import and domestic are very quick. I had Honda-Acura TL models very fast even in stock form 0-60 in 6 sec range. It's pretty impressive the knowledge some of these young guys have today with major modifications and much more complicated as well.

The business section of today's USA Today carried a pro and con article about U.S. versus Japanese/German vehicles. It was immediately apparent from reading the comments of the pro-foreign owners that there are HUGE misconceptions about domestic vehicles. Virtually EVERY import owner cited "better gas mileage" as a reason for buying foreign, and categorized domestics as "gas hogs". NOT TRUE. For nearly a DECADE, GM alone has made MORE 30mpg+ cars than Toyota and Honda COMBINED. Apparently the public is uninformed about this point. GM's sub-compacts have the highest fuel economy rating of any non-hybrid cars sold in the U.S., and higher than many hybrids. Ford's Focus also has a higher mpg rating than most Hondas or Toyotas.

Many import owners say that "buying American" doesn't matter because foreign auto makers have plants here and employ Americans. Here are the figures (USA Today, Feb. 17, 2009) : Foreign manufacturers employ roughly 111,000 people. The Big Three employ roughly 1,300,000. That is more than 10 to 1 in favor of buying from an American car maker if you truly want to support our economy. End of argument.

"Virtually EVERY import owner cited "better gas mileage" as a reason for buying foreign, and categorized domestics as "gas hogs". NOT TRUE."

That article does not speak for me, sorry. My 1987 Nissan got a measly 17 mpg city and 22 hwy, so gas mileage definitely WAS NOT my reason for buying a Japanese-made vehicle. I bought foreign because they have held up better in my opinion than the domestics have and being a recent college grad at the time, the vehicle was sporty and attractive (something I could not find from American manufacturers), roomy and had everything I wanted. I do not regret that purchase to this day. I visited the service department with my foreign vehicles less than half the number of times than I did with my domestic vehicle.

"For nearly a DECADE, GM alone has made MORE 30mpg+ cars than Toyota and Honda COMBINED. Apparently the public is uninformed about this point. GM's sub-compacts have the highest fuel economy rating of any non-hybrid cars sold in the U.S., and higher than many hybrids. Ford's Focus also has a higher mpg rating than most Hondas or Toyotas."

More than a high MPG is needed for me to buy American. A car that gets 50 mpg but is in the service department for repairs every other week trumps my whole purpose in buying the vehicle. Also, not every subcompact gets that great of mileage. When I was forced to rent a crappy Chevrolet Cobalt last year after my vehicle totalled, I was appalled by the poor mileage I got from the vehicle. I did not do heavy driving (before you say that). In fact, I drove a distance of no more than five miles each day from my house to work and back and it still returned poor mileage results.

"Many import owners say that "buying American" doesn't matter because foreign auto makers have plants here and employ Americans. Here are the figures (USA Today, Feb. 17, 2009) : Foreign manufacturers employ roughly 111,000 people. The Big Three employ roughly 1,300,000. That is more than 10 to 1 in favor of buying from an American car maker if you truly want to support our economy. End of argument."

Whatever the ratio, a car manufactured in the U.S. and purchased here is supporting the American economy. A Nissan manufactured in Tennessee is an American car, A Honda made in Ohio is an American car just as much so as any Ford, GM or Chrysler that comes out of a Detroit plant. I support this economy each and everyday regardless of the name of the vehicle I drive. If I spend my hard-earned money on something I feel to be more dependable (and attractive appearance-wise) than American-name vehicles that is my business and no one's but my own.

"Whatever the ratio, a car manufactured in the U.S. and purchased here is supporting the American economy. A Nissan manufactured in Tennessee is an American car, A Honda made in Ohio is an American car just as much so as any Ford, GM or Chrysler that comes out of a Detroit plant. I support this economy each and everyday regardless of the name of the vehicle I drive. If I spend my hard-earned money on something I feel to be more dependable (and attractive appearance-wise) than American-name vehicles that is my business and no one's but my own."

Yes, if making a decision that is 91% in favor of destroying our economy is your choice, go for it. Of course neither fuel mileage nor reliability (which is NOT an issue with any domestic) is responsible for the near-bankrupt conditions in the U.S. auto industry. Rather it is the insane idea that to provide health care to our poor and elderly (as every other civilized country does) makes us evil "socialists", like the UK and Canada. The biggest financial issue facing the U.S. auto industry is the huge cost of healthcare for workers and retirees. We are now spending MORE money to bail out these companies than it would have taken to provide universal health care for every man, woman and child in the U.S. Hopefully at some point our nation will grow up.

"Yes, if making a decision that is 91% in favor of destroying our economy is your choice, go for it."

It takes the decisions of many, especially those leading these companies to destroy our economy.

"Of course neither fuel mileage nor reliability (which is NOT an issue with any domestic) is responsible for the near-bankrupt conditions in the U.S. auto industry."

Chrysler has serious issues with reliability in many of their vehicles in their lineup.

"Rather it is the insane idea that to provide health care to our poor and elderly (as every other civilized country does) makes us evil "socialists", like the UK and Canada. The biggest financial issue facing the U.S. auto industry is the huge cost of healthcare for workers and retirees."

Healthcare is far more important to me than having a vehicle.

"We are now spending MORE money to bail out these companies than it would have taken to provide universal health care for every man, woman and child in the U.S. Hopefully at some point our nation will grow up."

We also are wasting tons of money, pouring it into an industry that has obviously seen its best days. Let them fail and let them learn. And I will keep driving my Nissans.

"The biggest financial issue facing the U.S. auto industry is the huge cost of healthcare for workers and retirees."

That and paying their workers twice as much, a burdensome pension system, other "legacy" costs, union requirements that force manufacturers to use more workers than necessary to do any given job, and (lest we all forget) a major recession brought on by a collapse in the credit markets (credit people need to buy cars).

A long drawn out debate about "socialized" health care would be inappropriate to this blog. But, because it's been mentioned here and on other threads, I'd like to chime in.

All available figures related to the cost of such a system are mere estimates and not hard sums. The government doesn't know for sure how much this system would cost (or whether it would be more or less than the auto bailout). Some of the reasons (actually questions) for this are:

Will people overburden the new system every time the hypochondriac media says that a sniffle is a sign of cancer?

How efficient will the system be?

How efficient will the associated bureaucracy be?

Will inefficiency eat up benefits born of scale?

Will voters demand the Nth degree of care with the latest technology?

Will the government then need to regulate prices on medical supplies?

How high up the line will it go?

To keep costs down, will the government begin to regulate our choices (Do you exercise? Do you smoke? Do you drink alcohol? Do you drive a lot?)?

With each new area comes more regulation and more bureaucracy. Will that become unbearably expensive?

They don't know and neither do we. We just know that health care has gotten too expensive, so we're casting around for solutions. Because of Washington's pro/con culture, we can't be sure that those who compile figures are truly independent and covering all the angles.

My biggest concerns with this type of system are that:

#1 Over time it will almost certainly cost more than current estimates suggest (it IS the government after all).

#2 It will erode our freedom further as the government tries to keep costs under control by regulating risky behavior.

I'm not offering a solution, just a warning. Just because someone (even a sincere someone like Mr. Obama, for example) says that it will cost $XXXXXXXX, doesn't make it true. All such figures are little more than educated flights of fancy. Let's just hope and pray that they get it right.

21:28.

If you read the comments made so far, the overall message you'll get from them is that the "Big Three" are destroying themselves. So simply underscoring the profundity of their failure won't convince many here.

What convinced me was test driving, evaluation behind the wheel, examining the poor warranty duration. I can appreciate Economics 1 and 2, but usually test first hand and bring my checkbook and buy a new vehicle. Who is currently in office, what health care plan I have usually is not the topic of conversation when I buy. I also keep in mind the lack of attention and dealer service I had, and I switched entirely to new domestics.

It isn't particularly insightful to lump all domestic manufacturer's into the Big Three. Their situations are all different. GM will survive at about 70% of its current size. Ford will survive pretty much be unchanged.

Chrysler may go completely under, although Jeep will continue on since in some form since they have a loyal group of buyers.

Why should I spend my money on the junk the American big three are selling?

I have owned 5 different GM's over the last 20 years; all were pieces of junk, have now owned two Toyotas in a row with minimal problems.

And by the way, the two Toyotas I had were built here in Cambridge Ont Canada.

"If you read the comments made so far, the overall message you'll get from them is that the "Big Three" are destroying themselves. So simply underscoring the profundity of their failure won't convince many here."

If you read the book cited in comment 21:28 you'll find that destroying the U.S. auto industry by buying from foreign-based companies will potentially wipe out ONE IN EVERY FIFTEEN jobs in the U.S. You may not even realize your job in such varied fields as finance, healthcare or insurance are even RELATED to the U.S. auto industry until you get you pink slip. Happy Depression.

"If you read the book cited in comment 21:28 you'll find that destroying the U.S. auto industry by buying from foreign-based companies will potentially wipe out ONE IN EVERY FIFTEEN jobs in the U.S. You may not even realize your job in such varied fields as finance, healthcare or insurance are even RELATED to the U.S. auto industry until you get you (sic) pink slip. Happy Depression."

I'm still tapping my foot, unconvinced of the reasons I should buy from a U.S.-based company. I will buy what seems to me to be the better car. The two Nissans I have owned have been far more reliable than my domestics have. I am going to list some reasons the American auto industry has failed itself.

1. Badge engineering: everyone knows what this is and sane-thinking people wonder why they should spend fifteen-thousand more dollars for a Lincoln Navigator or Cadillac Escalade when they can buy practically the same vehicle in the form of a Ford Expedition/Chevy Tahoe. Rarely do foreign makers sell the same product under different names.

2. Selling an inferior product for so many years, then when they realize they are losing a majority of the market share to foreign auto makers, try to improve. The big three are a day late and a dollar short. It's only a matter of time before Chrysler phases out production.

3. Poor resale value. Why purchase a Cadillac DTS when in two years it will be worth roughly half of the original purchase price?

4. Product recognition. Notice that Honda and Toyota have stuck with names such as "Camry" and "Accord" names which people are familiar with and associate with quality, dependability and durability. Ford has trashed successful nameplates like "Taurus" in favor of Five Hundred. Where the heck did Ford come up with such a name. Not only that, the models are blandly styled, do not stand out at all and are rarely sought when shopping. Ford Escort was popular for many years, why change the name. Why change minivan names from Aerostar to Windstar to Freestar (which basically was a Windstar with a name change.)

5. Redesigns. Why have Ford Crown Vic, Lincoln Town Car, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Navigator, Ford Expedition not seen redesigns other than "freshenings" in the past decade? They think it saves money, but it costs them when they continuously sell the same product year after year with fairly minimal changes. Whey would I buy a 2009 Navigator when it looks much the same as a 1998? What's sad is that GMC/Chevy made their Safari/Astro vans from 1985-2005 with almost NO changes. Mid-cycle, 1995 brought a face lift and interior tweaking. Ford's Ranger pickup has not had a true redesign since the 1993 season.

6. Lack of uniqueness. GM back in the early 1990's made a half-hearted attempt to capture minivan sales with the introduction of the Lumina van, Trans Sport and Silhouette. First off, the vans were ugly, hence the nickname "dustbuster." This clumsy lurch into the market haunted them the entire production run of nearly two decades despite name changes and redesigns.

These are just a few reasons our auto industry is needing OUR tax dollars to keep their heads above the water a while longer. In my opinion it's just a waste. Six months from now they'll be back in the same boat. I see no reason in buying from U.S. automakers. Until these companies become more competitive with foreign automakers, I think I'll stick with Nissan.

"Rarely do foreign makers sell the same product under different names."

Guess you haven't heard about Acura, Lexus and Infiniti eh? They are mostly re-badged cars under a premium name just like Cadillac is to Chevy. I know there are differences between Nissan and Infiniti, etc... but it is the same idea as Chevy to Cadillac... My Honda Accord is built on the Acura RL platform as most of the other cars share the same parts as well.

I do agree that the car companies in the U.S. made their bed mostly in the 70's and 80's with absolute junk that you could basically watch rusting in your driveway. Honda and Toyota came along and built much better cars back then, causing the major following they still have today. The big three did nothing to counter this movement, and concentrated on SUV's in the later 80's and 90's as their "cash cows" because the profits are so unbelievably high on them. So instead of competing with a better product, they created a new one that was just meant to fatten their wallets.

Then the foreign car companies got on the SUV bandwagon with better products once again... history repeats itself. The difference is, the foreign cars have good products to fall back on when things change. The US had a strong following in the SUV market because they were the first to sell them in a vast amount, but now that SUV's aren't the thing to buy, they are out of luck. Poor management and poor planning for decades has led to this... not the past year's decline in the economy. Now they need tax money to get bailed out, so I guess we are all buying that Chevy we don't really want, whether we like it or not, and we don't even get to take it home!

As for me, I don't have any loyalties to foreign or domestics, and I have had both with good luck and bad. My best car to date was a Cavalier Z-24, and the worst was a tie between a Nissan Maxima and an Olds Cutlass. The Cutlass was used, however, so the Maxima really wins as the worst due to it being brand new when I bought it.

"I'm still tapping my foot, unconvinced of the reasons I should buy from a U.S.-based company. I will buy what seems to me to be the better car. The two Nissans I have owned have been far more reliable than my domestics have. I am going to list some reasons the American auto industry has failed itself."

You'll have plenty of foot-tapping time when the entire U.S. economy folds because of people who "see no reason to buy from a U.S. based company". With 85% of U.S. jobs (probably including YOURS) tied in some way to the U.S. auto industry the entire country will go bankrupt if even ONE of the "Big Three" fold. Maybe you can find a job in Japan.