1st Oct 2010, 07:57
"$$$ - the car is way overpriced compared to comparable domestics. I expect to pay more for an import, but not like 50% more."
Okay, the 2011 Si Coupe starts at around $22K, so please tell me what "comparable" sub compact domestic is as powerful and has as many features for $15K. $22K would be that 50% more you are quoting over $15K. I wouldn't say this car is way overpriced. If you want almost 200 HP in a small fun to drive package, you are going to pay for it. The Mazda Speed is the only car that comes fairly close to this one in price to performance, but that is an import as well. The Cobalt SS is a great deal at around $24K as well, but the Honda is hardly 50% more than that car!
1st Oct 2010, 18:01
I'm a car club member, and car enthusiast who helps people select cars. Last year a friend shopping for a sub-compact checked out a Civic and an identically equipped Ford Focus. The Focus was almost (but not quite) 50% less to buy because of the price incentives. In addition, based on the purchase price, the Focus was worth MORE after three years when considering the inflated purchase price of the Honda.
I advised buying the Focus, as all Japanese brands, including Honda, have plummeted in build quality and reliability. The latest J. D. Powers Initial Quality Survey ranks Ford 5th out of 33 car makers, while Honda ranks 6th. Toyota is a joke, ranking 21st.
2nd Oct 2010, 16:16
Yeah okay... I OWN a Focus and I was so disappointed I bought it because of... you guessed it, RESALE. It stickered at $19,480 as brand new (SEL), and 8 months later I booked it and it was worth $11,200! After 8 months!! My cousin bought a Civic the same year, and he made out much better after the fact, because his car did not depreciate nearly as fast as mine. Also, the Civic was about $5,000 more given incentives on the Focus. However, since I purchased my last Honda for invoice, that would be cut down to around $3K... hardly 50% more!! That is a pretty big exaggeration really. And trust me, the extra 3 grand was made up within the first two years... or 8 months for the Anchor... er I mean Focus!!
Look, the fact is, domestics sink like anchors on resale. I had a 2008 Honda Accord before the Focus. It booked out HIGHER than what I paid for it after a year and almost 20K miles. I was never upside down in that car. I buy the Focus with huge rebates and great incentives and I am upside down after 8 short months. Yeah, keep telling people to buy Fords! Had I known that this car would lose so much so fast, I'd still be driving a Honda.
I'm not even going to waste time going over the bogus ratings crap again. You seem to want to buy cars based on J.D. Powers. I'll buy cars based on personal experience. And if any Japanese car company "plummeted" in quality, they'd still be better than GM or Ford's products on their best day! Keep buying into the hype of the suddenly great American auto company. It is the magic trick of the century!
3rd Oct 2010, 18:01
Okay, the Focus is in NO WAY a comparable car to the Civic Si. Size wise it is the same, but the performance difference is night and day, and really not a fair comparison.
4th Oct 2010, 11:36
"It stickered at $19,480 as brand new (SEL),"
That's where everyone fails to understand resale values. It's NOT the LIST that you base the resale on. It's WHAT YOU PAY versus resale. A Focus listing at $19,480 will generally sell for around $14,000. Anyone paying full list got taken BIG TIME.
On the other hand, a Civic listing at $19,000 will generally sell for $19,000 because so many people are duped into believing they are better. You are still ahead by at least $2000 on resale after 3 years in a Focus. We did the research. Check it out. All you need is a calculator and KBB.
As for which car is a better car, there is no argument with me on that. Our Civic was the most unreliable car I ever was cursed with. Our Focus was flawless, rode better, had a far nicer interior, and didn't use a quart of oil every 3 weeks like the Civic.
4th Oct 2010, 12:31
"A Focus listing at $19,480 will generally sell for around $14,000."
Okay what planet do you buy cars on that the dealers take over $5K off of a $19K car? That would be like $3K less than invoice and they would have gone under by now!
I got my SEL for $16,700 out the door after rebates and incentives. Had I offered them $14K, the deal would have gone real fast... I would have been driving home in my old car!
You obviously haven't bought any cars in a while.
4th Oct 2010, 12:36
Yeah, they "duped" me into paying invoice for my last Honda which was over $2K off sticker.
Please, if you haven't done any car deals and have no experience with any brands that you don't like, stop commenting on what you think the reality of the car buying world is! They do not sell $19K Focuses for $14K brand new and Hondas aren't sold for sticker either. Please try a better angle to make your domestic argument look better and stick to facts you actually know next time.
The reality is I paid invoice for my Accord and then after a year of driving it, it still booked higher than I paid for it. Try that with any Ford! Please save the comments until you actually have some experience.
4th Oct 2010, 16:09
"The reality is I paid invoice for my Accord and then after a year of driving it..."
Dealers are ecstatic to sell cars for "invoice." Invoice pricing is a gimmick. It does not represent the true cost of the car to the dealership. Once a car is sold, the manufacturer then sends a check for a few thousand dollars to the dealership. (I think this is called "hold back.")
"Invoice pricing" is a deceptive marketing gimmick that has been used by many car companies for many years. I am amazed the government has not stepped in to regulate this, since it clearly tricks many customers for over paying for cars.
I am not a huge fan of Consumer Reports, but at least on this one topic they are very helpful. Before buying a car, it can be wise to order the report on a car and get the Consumer Guide "bottom line" price. Of course you have to pay for that report too (everyone is out to make a buck.)
5th Oct 2010, 09:14
Yes but the reality of it is that invoice is still a $2K+ discount from MSRP. Not sure what you think you're going to swindle a car dealer out of, but good luck getting too much more than that. They are there to make money, and lots of it!
My point was that the other poster claimed Hondas sold for sticker, and they just plain don't unless someone is stupid enough to pay sticker that is. The other point is that Honda is worth paying invoice for, because they are still worth it down the road. Fords? Not so much! For me to never be upside down in a car is worth more than anything else. I was never in a position where I couldn't sell the Honda and make money on it over what I owed on it. I am on the Ford I bought, and was really in the hole on it after 8 short months... really pretty much on the way home from the dealer.
People have delusions about these 30% off deals on new cars. Maybe some people get lucky and the dealer has a reason to get rid of a certain car, but this is no way the norm. If the factory gives rebates, the dealer usually counts that as discount from MSRP. Of course I usually still get quite a bit off over the rebates, but not the kind of numbers people claim on here. I bought my Focus for $16,700 OTD. MSRP was $19,480, so not too bad after taxes and fees. I also got a good rate, so I was comfortable with it. Even with that, I am upside down though. The Honda had no rebates, and I simply got it for invoice and I was in better shape on it.
The upfront deal has been proven to not always be the best in the long run. Getting huge rebates and such upfront, and a lower price, usually costs you down the road in value. You will usually come out better buying the better car that holds its value, over the cheaper car that is cheap for good reason.