16:09 - Are you suggesting that the government step in and prevent car dealers from making a profit? If so, I would suggest that the next time you are in the market for a TV, or a computer, or any other big ticket item, that you walk into a "Big Box Store" and demand to see the "invoice" on the item you want to purchase. You'll probably be shown the door before you see any invoice.
As a former car salesman I can assure you that "invoice pricing" IS a joke. Dealers add on thousands for non-existent or very cheap extras and add it to the "invoice". Any time I see a person bragging about paying "invoice price" for a car, I know they are pretty clueless with cars in general.
Also, Ford is rated higher in quality than Honda (5th place versus 6th out of 33 car makers). Ford resale is skyrocketing as imports drop. And a domestic is ALWAYS a better buy, due to lower initial price, better warranty and lower maintenance costs.
As a rule, you DO come out better on resale with a domestic, because of all you save up front and on repairs.
Wrong. Book any two comparable cars right now, and imports will equal or better domestics still. Also, how would I save on repairs with domestics when I've spent $thousands on GM repairs over the years, and nothing on imports for the same years?
I just did a book value comparison of the Ford Escape we almost bought, and the Toyota RAV 4 we did buy, and after one year and 15K miles, the Toyota was ahead by around $1,550. Not sure what book you are using, but in my research I have never found that a domestic out values an import of equal original MSRP. Even with discounts, the import will usually fair better, as the higher quality will keep it in your driveway and not in the shop!
"16:09 - Are you suggesting that the government step in and prevent car dealers from making a profit?"
I am not suggesting that at all. One of the great things about America is that is still legal to make a profit (although I sometimes wonder if the government is likely to let that continue for long).
I am suggesting however that current laws concerning deceptive advertising practices would seem to prohibit the whole "invoice pricing" gimmick if the regulators were to see fit to start enforcing them.
Who ever compares a Ford to Honda's reliability must not be thinking straight. Look up most reliable car in North America and see what comes up for 2010. Sure the new Fords are supposedly more reliable, but that's all speculation! Nobody knows till you see them running with over 300K on them with original drivetrain etc.. It hasn't happened yet.
And comparing a Focus to an SI is bad (it's comparable to an LX, EX, or DX). I bought a 11' SES Focus and revoked my bill of sale and got my money back.
Bought a 08' SI 2dr instead with 11,000 kms on it for a grand less than the SES. It outperforms this car in every way. Handling, acceleration and interior quality. Although the Focus has more interior features and better exterior paint.
And I'm averaging 28-29 MPG in my SI which is mostly highway, but I rev the shit outta it constantly. It's a little better mileage than my 05' Sunfire SL 5 speed.
This is a lame comment, but I'm making it anyway. The Ford Focus, and Honda Civic are both compacts, not sub - compacts. The Honda Fit is classified as a sub - compact.
Again, the Honda FAN BOYS are on the board.
I got rid of my 2007 Civic Si because it was not a good car.. straight to the point, tranny problems and crappy interior.
You Honda lovers can argue all you want about Domestic vs Import.
My 2007 Civic Si purchased new.. $28,000 Canadian $ with taxes & freight.. the car cost me $32,000.
I could have got a brand new Chevy Cobalt at the time for $26,000.
Even the Volkswagen GTI was cheaper. The only cars that were more were the WRX and the Mazda Speed 3.
And the VW GTI and the Chevy Cobalt came with leather. The Civic did not!!
It doesn't matter, the Honda fanboys will always be fanboys till they get older and come to a realisation that they are not as good as they think. My brother inlaw was a Civic fanboy up until now; he got rid of the Civic and got himself a 1970 Chevy Nova. He loves it.. because he actually gets respect from everyone.
Also, I always hear every Honda boy throw out the whole "keeps its resale value". Guys.. I want you to look up online for a 1 year old Civic and tell me how much it's selling for. My Civic cost me $32,000; 2 years later I sold it for $18,000 and that was private. The dealer offered me $14,000. Resale value means nothing!! A car is not an investment, you're going to always lose, and if you're trading it in to a dealer, you will lose a lot. My Civic was worth 50% of what it cost me 2 year later.
I will buy another Honda, but I won't buy another Civic.
"My brother inlaw was a Civic fanboy up until now; he got rid of the Civic and got himself a 1970 Chevy Nova. He loves it.. because he actually gets respect from everyone."
What does this comparison have to do with anything? He got rid of a Civic for an old muscle car? That just doesn't make sense. I could see if he traded for a Focus or other comparable car, but I don't get the reasoning behind this one. Getting 35 MPG was too much to take, so he opted for 12 instead? Huh.
And not for nothing, but I will never expect a car to earn me respect from everyone. You gotta have more self-esteem than that!
The above comment is exactly right. I'd love a 1970 Chevrolet Nova, too. But it's a collector car. I couldn't afford the purchase price or the time to chase down parts. As for respect, I don't care if people respect my car. I respect myself.
I drive a 2005 Toyota Echo. It's flawlessly reliable, fun to drive, great on fuel, and it has good resale value. I don't care if people think it's ugly, or too slow. Also, why does everyone put so much stock in J.D. Power? I read Consumer Reports, and they still rank Honda and Toyota ahead of Ford. You need to do more research on a car besides reading J.D. Power. There has got to be more to a good car than just 'initial quality.'
I love you guys that buy and sell your Hondas quick... 100,000 miles or less... I have three of them now... all of them were bought for very little money... at around 80,000 to 120,000 miles on them... All of them have 200,000 or more miles now... with very few problems... except for the rear bearing on the 89 Honda hatchback, and the radiator and thermostat for the 1993 Honda Accord coupe... The 97 Honda Civic DX model has had zero problems, and has 226,000 miles on it...
Even if you guys get tired of the Hondas... put a non op on them... drop the insurance... and park it in the garage... as gas climbs to 4.00 a gallon, they come in handy.. Or taking it to supermarkets and malls....... where the kids have fun pushing shopping carts into cars for a few laughs...