2nd Nov 2014, 17:28
My daily drivers are mid-90s Lincoln Town Cars with the huge 4.6-liter V8 engines (same engine as the police-issue Crown Victoria). My highway fuel economy is about 26 miles/gallon and my city fuel mileage is about 20 miles/gallon for an average of about 23 miles/gallon. Both cars have around 150,000 miles and are maintained regularly. Take that, import car manufacturers.
4th Nov 2014, 13:19
The mid 90s Town Car's version of the 4.6 is rated at 210 HP. The Police Interceptor Crown Vics are rated at 251 HP with a heavy duty transmission. They are not the same. I own a '96 Town Car that is approaching 200,000 miles; great car.
4th Nov 2014, 23:20
Lincolns have nothing to do with Avalons. My Brother had a 98 Avalon that he seldom changed the oil on, and at 300,000 miles we finally changed the timing belt. He sold it with close to 350,000 miles and no problems whatsoever. BTW, his Avalon was made in Kentucky. A lot of the last gen Lincolns were made in Canada. So... "Take that, imports!" In fact the new Avalons are either the most or close to the most actual American-made cars you can buy, with something like over 90% domestically produced content. And where is Lincoln? They don't make Town cars or anything else like those anymore, so there's nothing to really talk about here.
6th Nov 2014, 07:40
Toyota made a lot of great small economical cars in the 80s and 90s, but those days on which their reputation was built are long gone. They are very overpriced now, yet have shoddy build quality, poor fit and finish, endless recalls, and boring, dated designs.
I have a friend with a 2012 Tacoma; that is a great truck and he is satisfied, however everyone else I know who owns a recent model Toyota has been back and forth to the dealer all the time for repairs, recalls, etc... I would choose a 1995 Toyota over a 2015 any day.
6th Nov 2014, 14:30
There is plenty to talk about when there are still millions of Town Cars on the road.
7th Nov 2014, 04:19
You really love harping on the fact that the Panther platform is dead. The way I look at is; if there are still a ton of them on the road, they can compete with anything else, and the reliability of a Town Car is just as good if not better than an Avalon from that same vintage, as far as the luxury car look and feel goes, the Lincoln wins.
11th May 2015, 23:50
And yet, most, if not all of them are either on their last legs or modified to oblivion. Your point?
12th May 2015, 16:16
There are millions of those Town Cars on the road because millions were made. And the point is? Name your car: Millions of whatever other model are also on the road too. Millions of Avalons are also on the road.
Ford made a mistake letting the Panther platform become an antiquated dinosaur. At this point they are trying to play catchup. Meanwhile Cadillac is simply rolling out hit after hit, they have some very good leadership and the cars they are working on for the future will be amazing. It's taken them over 15 years to get to that point. Lincoln has a very, very long way to go in that regard. So I find it ironic that there are people who moan and complain that the "old" Lincolns are no longer made. At one point cars like the Continental, Town Car, and Mark III were in fact cutting-edge, exquisitely styled, beautiful looking cars. The last of the old Lincolns are certainly not of that classification.
Here's the thing. As a car enthusiast I WANT Lincoln and Cadillac to succeed. At one point the US made luxury cars desired the world over. That distinction now goes mainly to European, particularly German brands. As I mentioned I have some tremendous respect for Cadillac. They are still having a huge uphill battle against the competition, not because they make an inferior product. Quite the opposite in fact, as many of their new cars are as nice, if not nicer than the competition.
They are having an issue because they have to shed the perceptions that they are still the luxury brand for retirees and that they still make big bloated, floaty cars. Not that there's anything wrong with big boats, but if a luxury car maker is to compete that's not the kind of cars those buyers seek. You see, perceptions take years to form and longer to change. That Cadillac and Lincoln spent decades making outdated cars means it's taking them just as long to change that perception.
But ultimately everything must change. What if some computer maker insisted on using floppy drives? That company would be out of business as the competition moved on to better technology. The very same is true with cars...
13th May 2015, 00:00
Ford's biggest mistake was discontinuing the Panther platform. So what if it was dated, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
FYI they did do various upgrades over the years such as the OHC engine, four wheel disks and rack and pinion, just to name a few. They changed with the times.
Name my car? Well, I have owned one of "those" '96 Town Cars for the past 8 years. You ask what the point is? Discontinued or not, there are a ton on the road from all eras. So why can't anybody talk about them like you stated back in November on comment 23:20.
Own and drive one everyday and you will understand. As far as Cadillac, their 3 current sedans that they offer, you really can't tell them apart. At least in the 70s - the 90s you could.
13th May 2015, 03:55
If you say the Town car is a dinosaur, then you may say the same for an Avalon. From the day it made its debut in 1994 up until now, it's still a unibody front drive V6 built off a Camry.
13th May 2015, 08:54
As one of the retirees, many of us are buying new Audis. Including the Q5 crossover. Adjustable ride, fast and comfortable for the boomers. I don't care for the seating position in the new Cadillac. And I have tried most of them. And Lincoln doesn't impress me either. What would be cool is a new loaded Mark 1 take off with adjustable suspension and some power added. Beautiful design. Just don't over inflate the price as before. Add the inside chrome door trim though.
13th May 2015, 19:17
Perhaps the only reason the Panther platform was allowed to stick around forever was because there was a reliable source of buyers for them in the form of Police departments, taxis and limo services. There are still a ton of them on the road too - again because millions were sold.
But the platform has been around since the late 70s with some different changes in configurations over the years. But hands down the biggest problem was the frame. Basically today's typical cross-demographic of luxury car buyers wants a chassis that handles in a nimble, responsive manner. You can't get that sort of handling from an old fashioned ladder frame no matter what you do to it. Back in the 50s, 60s and even through to the 70s, the desired handling characteristics of a luxury car were that it handled like a couch. You'd run over pot holes and it would sort of lunge on through, giving a nice cushiony ride. Yes - that was the standard for decades, but as the German automakers have taken over as the luxury brands of choice, that standard has totally changed.
What Ford, and to a greater extent GM, realized, was that in order to keep their luxury divisions relevant, they would have to come up with totally new platforms and cars, as well as undertake a re-branding exercise. And so out would come the new cars.
I suppose what I find ironic about this whole debate is that if you look back, what did people used to look forward to whenever Cadillac and Lincoln made a product announcement? They looked forward to whatever crazy, new, exciting, and technologically advanced cars they were going to release so that they could then lust after and desperately want them. Luxury cars are SUPPOSED to be the epitome of what is new and in many ways exclusive to those who seek luxury. But yet we have some folks here who seem to be wanting the total and direct opposite - which is for these luxury car makers to instead keep crankin' out the same old moldy designs and stale platforms.
There is nothing wrong with liking any car of your choosing. There are people who love, collect and drive cars of all kinds. But for the majority these are niche buyers and they are not in any way the same as the current consumer with their current, more mainstream tastes. Stating that Ford should have continued on and on with an outdated product to me says something about not really understanding market dynamics and product development.
Lastly, nobody is going to say the Avalon is exactly the most stunning, amazing car. It's actually closer to being like the older Buicks made in the 90s. In fact the car has been called the "Buick of Japan". And so it's not just Ford and GM who have made the mistake of producing sort of boring, floaty cars. Toyota has and does the same thing. I know because my Mom owned an Avalon and it was not exactly different from my Grandmother's Buick LeSabre.
13th May 2015, 19:29
Sorry, I meant the 55-57 Mark II. 10k when new; a lot of money then, and likely its only detriment. An absolutely beautiful car. If they resurrected its body design etc today, I am sure it would be a smash hit. Push it over 100k today though and it may not sell as well yet again. Cadillac had some as high as 13k prior to around 1958. Beautiful as well.