8th Dec 2009, 00:55

"Japanese imports earned 39 of the 47 top reliability honors, while US. and European models scored well below average in this Consumer Reports study."

That's what I've been reading for all years. And the 2009 figures are more or less equal to these numbers. OK, US automakers makes some good cars too, but to bash Toyota like this is wrong. On average Toyota makes much better cars than Ford and Chevrolet, Toyota being placed among top 3 year after year, and Ford/GM being placed somewhere between place 15 and 20, or even lower.

8th Dec 2009, 10:59

"Buying a Honda or Toyota puts 90% of Americans involved in the U.S. auto business out of work."

This is so off the mark it isn't even funny! How do you justify saying this? Please tell me exactly WHY 90% of people would be out of a job because people buy Toyotas and Hondas. It hasn't seemed to be a problem for the past 30 years, but now you claim it is catastrophic today? C'mon now... really. The ONLY reason that would make sense to this statement is one the domestic lovers won't admit.... the companies themselves are incompetent and run by greedy self centered CEO's that want to take private jets to D.C. to ask for bailout money!

This statement has been floating around on here for months, yet NO ONE has backed it up with any reasons. It is just an attempt at shock value. Any of these "90%" arguments are severely flawed in favor of domestic companies and just don't' really make sense. Again, the politicians run thick around this site! And sorry but I am a Ford owner... not an "import lover". Give me a break!!

8th Dec 2009, 12:33

Who is responsible for the closing of your plants? Honda buyers? NO!! Ford and GM for outsourcing labor and factories to foreign countries. You know, the companies you vow to support, that didn't care enough about your community to continue to provide jobs there.

No one wants to lose their job and hopefully no one wants their neighbor to lose theirs either, but you need to look at the source of the problem, and it is not the competition, it is the domestic companies themselves. There are more than enough customers to go around in the U.S. in order for the domestic companies to make an adequate profit and keep people employed. Companies that are mismanaged and run into the ground don't make it in any economy, and that unfortunately is the case with the big three and why they have to look to other countries for cheap labor in order to survive.

Yes you are right about the gas prices being a big part of the downfall of the big three. Again their selfish business practices had them pushing gas guzzling SUV's in favor of anything that is more practical and better on gas. Why did they do this? Pure profit. The markup percentage on any SUV is much more than it is on a car because of the huge difference in production to MSRP costs. These companies were riding on this for decades, and U.S. consumers were eating it up as they were brainwashed into thinking they needed huge vehicles to commute in and 4 wheel drive for the occasional snow fall. Did they care they were wasting valuable resources? NO!! They were cashing in on these big cows they were selling and could care less about the future!

Now things have fallen apart for them and they look to us, the taxpayers, to bail them out. They even fly themselves in corporate jets, that cost $ millions themselves, to ask for handout money. Now they are on their last legs, which is ENTIRELY their own fault and you want to support them wholeheartedly as the Great American Way? This is truly a sad time for America. Things have failed so miserably here and all people can do is keep rewarding the failure because it might save your job for the short term. If it is bad enough that these jobs are all in jeopardy, then there is nothing you can do to save it.

Supporting lame business is not an answer to the problem, but a contribution to it. Until people see this, things will only get worse and never improve.

8th Dec 2009, 13:43

15:21 In my opinion you are as off base as any person who says that imports are all junk. Can't ANY of you see that nothing is black & white?

8th Dec 2009, 14:51

"Buying a Honda or Toyota puts 90% of Americans involved in the U.S. auto business out of work."

This is so off the mark it isn't even funny! How do you justify saying this?"

Probably because it happens to be a fact.

8th Dec 2009, 17:32

Great now that we've had our lessons in civics (no pun intended) economics, and political science, can we please get back to car reviews.

I mean really - do you see the Europeans (or anyone else not from the USA) on this site arguing over where a car is made? I don't think so!

8th Dec 2009, 19:04

What we're seeing here is the classic way to run an insurgency. Honda and Toyota open subsidized plants in the US, cut benefits, and sell cars at cut rate prices in order to gain market share. In order to compete, GM, Ford, and Chrysler are forced to cut costs in order to remain competitive, some of which involves outsourcing. So now the "bad guy" is the domestic automakers for laying off hard working Americans, rather than the cut-rate companies that undersold them by having no union encumbrances, plus getting support from congressmen who wanted those non-union, lower pay plants in their districts. That's the same as turning against the government that you need to protect you because they can't protect you from terrorists, and joining with the terrorists for "security."

9th Dec 2009, 09:19

12:33 If supporting lame business, does that also include quality of the product you personally purchased new?

I have never had as many problems as I had with my recent import purchases. I had major drivetrain issues and had the worst resale of any car I ever owned in such a brief period. Carfax was likely the reason as every repair reported came up. I think Carfax is great (as a buyer), but it also hurts if you sell. Warranty work out of warranty comes up.

I am not going to support what I feel as the higher production as the reasoning for the quality dropping for us. When we bought our true imports with low production, I had great praise. I have seen quality drop first hand, and I am not buying or feeling they have an automatic customer any more, and it's all about service.

If I have a 100,000 mile standard warranty, maintain receipts (I always go the dealer under warranty) I am not looking for excuses. I looked at the new domestics and was shocked how nice they are. The import mfrs. advertise well and I returned again and again for many years, but I looked around. I saw our cars as not what they once were - no issues. Offer a fantastic warranty standard or even a meager 100,000 mile one and I may return. If a warranty is never used, it would not cost a dime for all manufacturers to offer it. Saying it's not needed to sell cars is not what I want to hear. It should be in our case if you want us to buy more import cars offer it. If someone buys 1 or 2, it may be great short term, but what about us that started buying since the 70's. I have to be satisfied to buy again as a repeat customer.