2009 Toyota Camry LE from North America - Comments

"Not only that, but it is now a cold, hard fact that Japanese brands are of lower quality than domestic vehicles."

Because of what, the Ford Fusion and the Buick line-up? That's only one vehicle class, the Japanese brands beat the domestics in every other vehicle class.

So it's okay to you that Ford and GM are only shafting a certain number of people with their outsourcing as long as they are not hurting you? The old "ends justifies the means" argument. That's fine with me, but just don't say you are patriotic by supporting 100% U.S. industry... because you are NOT. Ford, GM and Chrysler are about as patriotic and 100% domestic as Honda.

Did your "excellent" CNN go over how they have mixed and matched parts from Toyota, Mazda, Honda, etc. over the past 20+ years? What is so patriotic about that? You seem to be really on the bandwagon for companies that really didn't care enough about this country to operate intelligently and efficiently, which would have kept them viable and thriving instead of looking for handouts. Yes, Ford is better than GM and Chrysler for not using tax money... but they did go on the trip to Washington, in their corporate jet to seek help in case they needed it didn't they?

You are a proponent for the end of the U.S. by supporting this kind of business. People are so "doomsday" over the end of the auto industry. Please... there are many rich investors willing to pick up where the business would have ended. Look at Saturn and Hummer. They got bought up immediately as would the rest of the industry. In short, they wouldn't have been allowed to fail but would have morphed into smaller, leaner companies. The trouble is everyone in this country is afraid of change... even when it is greatly needed and they fight tooth and nail over patriotism and such issues because someone doesn't agree with their point of view. Do I want to see things fail in the U.S.? Of course not... Am I an import lover... well I drive a Ford so... I'm just not confused by propaganda is all.

It also keeps more of our engineers research and development teams in America employed. Japan can buy all our cars they wish to better our economy. I am glad GM high quality vehicles are selling well overseas.

"Because of what, the Ford Fusion and the Buick line-up? That's only one vehicle class, the Japanese brands beat the domestics in every other vehicle class."

Hardly. Nissan is notorious for building unreliable vehicles (such as the laughable Titan and Armada). So is Mitsubishi. Toyota is now ranked "average" in reliability (lower than most domestics) and Honda/Acura is now famous for its "transmission of the month club". The SUV's with the WORST resale value last year were the Nissan Armada and the Toyota Sequoia. The best was GM. Maybe at one time Japan built a handful of decent vehicles. Not lately.

"It also keeps more of our engineers research and development teams in America employed. Japan can buy all our cars they wish to better our economy. I am glad GM high quality vehicles are selling well overseas."

As a therapist, it amazes me how ad hype can so totally brainwash people. To think that buying a Toyota or Honda (or Saab or Mercedes for that matter) DOESN'T harm our country's economy is just mind-boggling. It is almost as if they are in some sort of hypnotic trance. Even all the current data clearly indicating that both Ford and GM build better cars is just brushed aside. Prominent economists, university studies and CNN's wonderful show about the (obvious) benefits of buying from U.S. industries just goes in one ear and out the other. Either that or many of our citizens really DON'T care about hurting their friends, families and neighgbors.

My teen is so enamored over his first car, a Civic. He has nothing to compare it to. I bought it yet I cannot stand it. It rides hard, the seats are terrible parts, especially the EX tires are high. It starts and runs and is not too powerful. The point is some have limited ownership exposure basic models, and yet think they know all there is. I have owned many in 40 years of driving and continually learn the newest performers drivetrains etc, and I buy not armchair critique with limited ownership instances.

We are a multi-car family and usually own from 2 to 5 cars at any given time. We currently have 2 Fords and 2 GM's. In the past 40 years we've owned over 30 different vehicles. Three were popular imports. All three were money pits that cost us more in repairs in a year than all our domestics combined. Not one of our domestics ever had a repair before 100,000 miles. Several made well over 200,000 and one Ford went 325,000 before being traded (for another Ford of course). I feel that is ample evidence that domestics are better vehicles, regardless of ad hype to the contrary. Our last import (Honda) was sold to a junk dealer over a decade ago. We'll never buy another Japanese vehicle.

If you are a Toyota or Honda owner reading the chart for "Consumer Reports Predicted Reliability for 2010 models" this is reassuring being placed #3 and #2 respectively. On top as #1 - as usual, Scion owned by Toyota.

And Ford? #16

And good ole' Chevy? #25 and falling.

Funny if when asked by a quality controlled survey like Consumer Reports, Honda/Toyota always ends up on top in the reliability category. Any comments on that guys? LOL.

I just read Civic sales are down. The best way is to physically get behind the wheel and test drive. Even rent first. If you are going to bounce around, have your head against the ceiling, thinly padded seats etc. it is not going to be quality of ownership... sure it starts and runs, but it's a appliance to some not a joy.

Is the warranty any good? If you barely drive or just about town, maybe a weak 36,000 mile warranty is enough. In one years time my warranty would be gone. I drive a lot and distance driving... if I hate the ride and feel I need a visit to a chiropractor, it is of zero value to me. I drive 800 miles to visit family one way 2-3 times a year. Plus a lot of driving in between. If I have to buy a little more gas and love driving there (not wiped out or beat up from small wheelbases and suspension travel) it has a lot more value in the purchase and ownership experience.

"In the end American consumers will tend to do what they've always done and simply shop for the best car at the best price, regardless of where it's designed or made. Ultimately that may be the best for everyone, pushing American car companies to compete globally by making better cars."

From your "excellent" CNN... This was part of a story they did on buying American. Read that last line a few times. This is what is called free trade and it is what makes ALL of the car companies make better products for everyone. Without this companies are lazy and produce junk, as evidence in the 70's and into the 80's when Ford, GM and Chrysler didn't have the competition they now do.

If you close the borders blocking off all imports and no one buys anything but American cars, this is not really a good thing in the long run. Does it spur economic growth in the U.S. today? Yes it does, but for tomorrow it isn't going to be really that beneficial. If we close off trade with foreign companies, then they will do the same with us and all of our global brands will cease to exist. What do you think that would do to the big three?

To say Americans should just stop any foreign trading is short sighted to say the least. If you want to destroy our auto industry globally, and in effect domestically, then sure go ahead and cut off the rest of the world. That would be a good plan! Try looking past tomorrow.

"Funny if when asked by a quality controlled survey like Consumer Reports, Honda/Toyota always ends up on top in the reliability category. Any comments on that guys? LOL."

The Camry ranked "average" in reliability in Consumer Reports. Accord got a "better than average". The Ford Fusion got a "MUCH better than average (for the third straight year). J. D. Powers LONG-TERM reliability surveys put a Buick and a Ford tied for 1st place ahead of even Lexus. In 2007 they rated the Pontiac Grand Prix "best in class" ahead of the over-rated Toyota Avalon. The Ford Mustang ALWAYS tops the Toyota Solara in the sport coupe category.

Of course real-world experience counts too. Our family companies use Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks and vans, and lots of Rangers as light-duty service vehicles. 300,000 miles with nothing beyond regularly scheduled maintenance is typical of ALL THREE brands (especially the little 4-cylinder Rangers). How many companies do you see using Toyota trucks (Honda doesn't make trucks)?? If we used Tundras we'd go bankrupt on repairs.

Any comments on THAT guys?? :)

I love driving my Corvette, isn't that quality of life. It amazes me individuals that buy a car like a kitchen appliance with a pile of consumer magazines in the trunk. Granted money is tight for many. That in itself does not indicate its the best for everyone. Test driving is the best and not a 36000 mile warranty. I think each owner should judge the best overall car, not the bland vanilla that may sell because of spartan accommodations, low cost A to B, model transportation. I drove a top rated import years ago that I hated driving, but it started and stopped. Best selling may also be cheap bland to be affordable to the masses. Not really any joy to own or drive. I am picky more discerning vs looking for a magazine bride to park in our garage. I can use a review as a starting point only, but I have to really make my own vehicle selection. Great drivability, great warranty and I buy.

"(Honda doesn't make trucks)"

So the Ridgeline is a figment of my imagination?

"The Camry ranked "average" in reliability in Consumer Reports. Accord got a "better than average". The Ford Fusion got a "MUCH better than average (for the third straight year). J. D. Powers LONG-TERM reliability surveys put a Buick and a Ford tied for 1st place ahead of even Lexus. In 2007 they rated the Pontiac Grand Prix "best in class" ahead of the over-rated Toyota Avalon. The Ford Mustang ALWAYS tops the Toyota Solara in the sport coupe category.

Of course real-world experience counts too. Our family companies use Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks and vans, and lots of Rangers as light-duty service vehicles. 300,000 miles with nothing beyond regularly scheduled maintenance is typical of ALL THREE brands (especially the little 4-cylinder Rangers). How many companies do you see using Toyota trucks (Honda doesn't make trucks)?? If we used Tundras we'd go bankrupt on repairs."

Again, you are quoting a very limited number of domestics that fared well against the imports. Fusion for three short years is in no way a test of a great car. Do it for 25 years like the Accord did and then boast about it.

My neighbor uses Ford Superduty Diesels for his company, and Ford has already replaced one due to a blown engine, and now the second one is showing the same symptoms of failure.

The Ford diesel is known to be junk. Chrysler won't be in the running for anything quality oriented for long after they discontinue the Hemi cars and trucks. Chevy has long had transmission issues with their truck lines as well and I have had personal experiences with these issues.

The construction company I used to work for used Toyota 2WD pickups all the time for hauling stuff and running job sites. We overloaded them and beat the crap out of them, and they kept coming back for more time after time.

There are many examples from EVERY car line that are good and bad, and you'll find countless people on either side of the fence. There is no real proof that one line is that much better than another unless the entire line is just plain junk. That doesn't seem to really be the case these days though. U.S. car companies have benefited GREATLY from import technology that they have mimicked and even marketed in their own lines over the years. Without imports, our companies would be nowhere near the level of quality they are now.

As part of a group of patriotic car enthusiasts, I often take import-owning friends out to test drive domestics. It's always a joy to see someone make a decision to support American industry. Today I helped a friend make the decision to trade his problem-plagued Nissan Altima for a high-quality Ford Mustang. He'd never owned a domestic. Now he'll almost certainly own another import. Score another one for Ford.