25th Jun 2010, 16:15
"I've also heard of Japanese vehicles collapsing under their own weight. Sorry, I've never seen that either."
I did. Our mid-80's Japanese import (made in Japan, by Japanese, using Japanese materials) sagged so bad just from its own weight at 84,000 miles that a local alignment shop could not do an alignment on it. I was told the weight of the car (a small car at that) had caused the puny front sub-frame assembly to twist. They even had a name for it: They called it "The Japanese flimsies" and said it was common to all Japanese cars because of the under-engineered materials used in all vital parts of the car. I was told I'd have to have the frame straightened. I opted to trade it for a Ford with 129,000 miles on it that was twice the car and never had a problem.
25th Jun 2010, 23:33
Twenty years ago, Toyota cars were better than those from the Big Three. But now even Consumer Reports has been using the word "un-Toyota like" to describe the recent Toyota designs.
It doesn't make that much sense to make new car buying decisions in 2010 based on what the world was like 20 years ago.
26th Jun 2010, 10:46
I would buy low mileage 70 or 80 era used, but never any after 2000 Honda or Toyota. They dropped in quality with major mechanical issues for us.
26th Jun 2010, 18:39
I've never heard of Japanese cars being underdesigned to the point they couldn't support their own weight. I think you were taken for a ride with a car that had been in a prior accident and the shop was trying to soak you. Even if you bought the car new, it could have been in some kind of accident where the sub frame was compromised during delivery.
All of the good mechanics I have known have always said imports are better designed, even 20 years ago. I have never once heard of a frame giving out on an import... and I've owned plenty of them. I had an old '80 Toyota that actually had rusted through the frame on the drivers side to the point it was almost all the way through. It didn't compromise any of the soundness of the car though. Yes it rusted out, but not as fast as any domestic I had back then. My first car was a 6 year old Chevy Nova that had already completely dissolved under the radiator and the whole thing was held together with coat hangers and bungie cords... at 6 years old. I had a Honda from the same time period and it was pretty much rust free until I sold it at 100K miles. I drove it through the same NY winters with salt and all. I'd say, based on my experience I would call it "The Chevy flimsies!"
27th Jun 2010, 11:02
If you get a chance, look at the Ridgeline frame and the Tundra frame. Then look at Silverado and Ford F Series. My boat would never make it up the ramp with the light imports.
27th Jun 2010, 13:14
"I think you were taken for a ride with a car that had been in a prior accident and the shop was trying to soak you."
No, the shop that diagnosed the car as having "The Japanese Flimsies" COULDN'T repair the frame, DIDN'T refer me to a specific frame shop and DIDN'T charge me ONE CENT for checking the car's alignment. They just said it was common for Japanese vehicles due to the flimsy metal used in their construction. The car had never been in an accident, and was owned by a local doctor and always serviced meticulously. It was just a very poorly built car. I AM a mechanic and can readily attest to the fact that Japanese vehicles use VERY under-engineered structural components.
27th Jun 2010, 19:02
Well, for starters, the Honda Ridgeline is really only a very light-duty vehicle (it wasn't DESIGNED to be a heavy-hauler, and I don't think Honda ever had that in mind when designing it). Despite not being a heavy-duty truck, it actually does have a fully-boxed frame incorporated into the chassis, and it can tow up to 5,000 lbs.
The Tundra is a full-size truck capable of towing up to 10,000 lbs. So unless your boat weighs more than 10,000 lbs, the Tundra isn't going to have any trouble towing it.
28th Jun 2010, 12:14
Gee, I wonder how they've sold millions upon millions of "under-engineered" cars and this is the first time I have heard of one sagging under its own weight. Like I said, the car was probably dropped in shipping as a new car, and something was compromised. This happens all the time, and more often than anyone could imagine, and then the cars are sold to the unsuspecting public as brand new accident free vehicles.
Imports are far superior in their designs overall, and pretty much have been for the past 30 years, so your one time experience isn't going to change that, sorry.
28th Jun 2010, 12:59
You don't pull at the rating, plus you look at radiator oil coolers, suspension trailer packages, larger braking surface and determine if a half ton truck is maxed out on hills heat. Then you look at people carrying, ride comfort and handling. I tow 2 hours each way on weekends in intense heat. Lastly a 100000 mile warranty minimum is not a flimsy warranty. If you towed, you would realize all these important considerations. If you just carry a few bags of mulch or a plant, light duty pickups may work.
28th Jun 2010, 13:04
I always get a laugh out of people calling the Honda Ridgeline a "Truck". It certainly is NOT a truck! It is a Honda Pilot SUV with the top chopped off to provide a tiny, virtually useless bed.
The Toyota Tundra is a truck, although a rather poorly built one. All of them ever built are now being recalled for several, rather serious, safety issues.
In the late 80's the science magazine OMNI (now defunct) carried an article about how the frame components on Japanese vehicles were far weaker and flimsier than those used on domestic vehicles. They still are, especially on the one true Japanese truck (the Tundra). Just compare any of its major structural components to the top selling F-150.
25th Jun 2010, 15:01
I've worked on Japanese vehicles. Found them a lot easier to work on than American vehicles for starters, but I also didn't see any problem with the design of any of them.
I've seen Honda's and Toyota's flipped over and then just simply rolled back over and driven away without much damage. My own Honda Accord was involved in accident many years ago with a Buick. The Buick rear-ended my Accord and was completely totaled and undriveable, I continued driving my Accord for another 5 years or so after that accident without any problems (after the accident the rear bumper was replaced, that was the only part that was damaged in the accident).
A friend of mine attempted to kill a late '80s Accord that already had 250,000 original miles on it. He picked it up for about $400. He just drove it through the woods, jumped it, mudded it, did donuts, had the engine at redline pretty much the whole time. He did this 3 separate times. Guess what, he drove home in each time after all that fun? That Accord, the alignment was a little bit off, it was a bit loud because the muffler developed a large hole in it, the rearview mirror had fallen off and it had quite a few scratches and dents, but it still went down the road just fine. Never even saw any blue smoke from that thing. He sold it a few weeks later, still running.
I've also heard of Japanese vehicles collapsing under their own weight. Sorry, I've never seen that either. I did own a vehicle that began to collapse under it's own weight though; it was a Dodge Neon.