15th Jan 2007, 13:53

Test drive? Hell, I had one for a WEEK as a rental and it was hardly superior to my 1980 Toyota Tercel.

And you can't possibly talk about subsidies being only "for foreigners". Want to know how far Tenessee bent backwards for the Saturn plant? Want to know how much taxpayer dollars go into getting the automakers to do anything?

And if you are not aware where Toyota is going to build five new plants, it means you have not kept on this topic.

16th Jan 2007, 13:57

I owned a 1985 Tercel. At the time it was better than any similar Detroit or European offering and yes, it was truly a good car. Although I wouldn't say it in any way compares to a Cobalt, maybe more like a current Kia perhaps. The little Chevy is a better car by far.

No, I haven't kept abreast of what plants specific manufacturer's plan to open this year, it's not been my a passion of mine. However, Toyota plans to open a new assembly plant in southern Ontario this year. Why do you think Toyota decided to open a plant there rather than anywhere else in Canada or the U.S.? Free stuff and less than union scale? By the way, a lot of people working here for Toyota, Honda and the like are employed on a temporary basis only for a fraction of what full time employees receive. They're rotated in and out on a nine month contract and usually let go when the time expires because our employment law requires that they be brought on full time if employment exceeds a specific time limit.

For your information, the CAW has tried on more than one occasion to set up shop at both Toyota and Honda plants here in Ontario. Each time the full time employees voted against the union because they were concerned that production would be scaled back due to dis-enfranchising Toyota's and Honda's competitive advantage.

GM, Ford and Chrysler have initiated plant closings at out dated facilities while expanding production at others here in Canada. A lot of good honest hard working folk have and will be losing their jobs because of this. You and I brother are being taken advantage of by stupid government officials and opportunistic off shore corporations.

Bravo to Saturn. I'm glad to hear they got a share of the subsidies given out. I'd rather our domestic manufacturers receive subsidies than off shore concerns.

16th Jan 2007, 15:58

Bravo? You do realize that all Saturn design and engineering (and maybe production) will be in Europe, right? And that entry level GM cars are coming from Daewoo right? And that the big cars are coming from Australia, right?

Your own "domestic" manufacturers are outsourcing right and left to save money.

Put your money on the ones that employ Americans - the Japanese.

17th Jan 2007, 14:13

You are entitled to your opinion yet your logic escapes me. However, you could be right! Would it make sense for GM to engineer and produce all Saturn vehicles in Europe and then ship them to the North America? How about GM assembling their Big cars in Australia? Big picture stuff right! Anythings possible I guess, but, I don't think so.

FYI, guess who's setting up shop in China to assemble and ship vehicles to the U.S. There's a lot of Yen being spent over there. Ops, I forgot, Indonesia and Thailand, a lot of Yen going there as well. Yep, parts manufacturing. Guess who wants to ship parts to North America rather than employ North Americans? It's got something to do with and Asian free trade deal U. S and Canadian politicians agreed to. Makes you want to throw up in your cream of wheat!

So sorry to say, but it looks like the Japanese may be cutting back a bit in North America. Too bad, seems that more good hard working union folk will be collecting welfare instead of working for the Japanese for ten bucks an hour.

Myself, I'll stick to the tried and true.

17th Jan 2007, 18:20

Please go to Google and look up opinion vs. fact. AutoWeek reported it directly from Bob Lutz's mouth. They may still manufacture some of the cars here, but the reality is everything else is going to be FOREIGN. Design, engineering, etc.

The only thing remotely American about GM vehicles in the future will be the trucks.

17th Jan 2007, 18:22

Yeah, that announcement by Toyota that it is building FIVE new plants in America backs this up.

Wish you people would actually do some research into the topics you're posting about.

18th Jan 2007, 12:17

Don't keep us in suspense any longer! Where and when will Toyota build these five new plants in the U.S.?

20th Jan 2007, 14:39

We're waiting.

20th Jan 2007, 17:10

HMMM, it was in all the automotive press and talked about at the Detroit show.

Go to Google.com. Type in Toyota to build five plants.

You will get 1,020,000 responses.

23rd Jan 2007, 14:20

<<Yeah, that announcement by Toyota that it is building FIVE new plants in America backs this up.>>

<<Wish you people would actually do some research into the topics you're posting about.>>

The facts are that Toyota "may" build five new plants in the U.S. over the next ten years, but this has not been substantiated by Toyota. In other words, it's merely "speculation", nothing more! Toyota has not announced anything of the sort and have not issued any press releases concerning this issue.

23rd Jan 2007, 16:38

Oh, okay, please tell how many plants GM, Ford, or DMC may build in the next ten years.


Oh, wait, that's right, they are LAYING OFF people. In fact, in the latest BusinessWeek there is a report that analysts think Dr. Z did NOT close ENOUGH plants and that he will have to just to keep Chrysler afloat.

But go on believing American car manufacturers are the salvation of the American worker. Especially since GM is rumored to be buying Proton, the Malaysian car manufacturer. Lots of American jobs to be filled there, lol.

23rd Jan 2007, 17:14

Considering the tremendous number of problems Toyota is having with defective transmissions, steering, air bags, paint, brakes, coolant leaks, oil leaks, sticking accelerators and premature engine failures, I can't imagine just how they are going to build more plants. Sooner or later people are going to wise up and stop buying their dangerous, unreliable and over rated vehicles.

24th Jan 2007, 08:29

Really? Even if what you say is true (it's not, Toyota's problems are not that grave), you'll surely have to explain how the American auto manufacturers have stayed in business for the past 30+ years.

After all, not much better examples of "dangerous, unreliable, and overrated" vehicles than anything domestic since the 1970's.

25th Jan 2007, 13:40

Facts are important and should be reported as such. Debating with any Toyota pettifogger is a welcome challenge, but when speculation is exaggerated for the purpose to mislead or to bolster an argument, then the argument lacks credibility and any rebuttals rudimentary.

25th Jan 2007, 14:40

What are you talking about? You pro-American car people keep saying that you must buy American to support American workers, but if that was true why are the companies YOU support even speculating on buying companies that will NEVER employ American workers? Makes zero sense.

The FACTS are all three domestic manufacturers are laying off workers, closing plants, and do lots of other cost cutting that does NOT benefit the American economy. Ford just announced a nearly $13 billion loss, the biggest in its history. Now if American cars are sooo wonderful, how is that possible?

I am NOT pro Toyota and do not own one. But I do look at the facts, not some "my Aunt Sadie always drove American and never had a problem" posts.