20th Aug 2010, 10:08
That is a straw argument. It has nothing to do with the quality and everything to do with quantity and demand. Let's face it - if you were to go to just about any car show across the country, whether it be in Alabama, North Carolina, or even California, what are the typical types of people you happen to see at those shows? Why - the very types of people who for the most part are in the exact same mindset, that they simply MUST drive American cars and would NEVER buy or own one of those foreign cars. So the reason such utterly mundane cars like the Nova or Chevelle go for big bucks is because there is a demand, and also because the people buying them are now in their 50's and 60's, and "Always wanted one of those when they were a teenager", and now that they have the money, they'll blow the big bucks to get one.
Those muscle cars were pumped out, slapped together, and never made to do anything except drink gas and go fast. The Chevy Nova had one of the worst quality ratings of its day, and many of the other cars like it were not far behind.
On the other hand if you go to the UK, Japan, France, or any other country that produces cars, you would find the exact same thing: The classic domestic cars would be getting the most attention, because just like in the US - the typical car collector wants to collect their home-grown branded cars.
20th Aug 2010, 14:21
Why on Earth are we comparing old classic muscle cars to modern every day drivers? Is this the length a domestic lover has to go to to make domestic cars seem so good?
Go ahead, use 40 year old cars that have had many many thousands of dollars put into them for restoration, as 95% of them needed to look like they do now, if they are mint. If you put 1/10th the money into a late model Toyota to keep it running for 40 years, it would make it and probably do 5 times the miles while doing it. Until you see people with brand new Camry's on trailers going to shows so they can run duster cloths over them and prop mirrors up underneath them so everyone can look at them, you are not making a valid argument.
On top of that, a mint 69 Camaro for $45K is really not all that much, since a brand new one costs not much less than that, and factoring in inflation, it would be about the same or less than it was new!
Like others have already stated. Import cars were 1. Economy cars with no real collectible significance and 2. Weren't really around nearly as much as domestic cars were in the 70's. Also, every country values their own automotive history the most. Go to any other country and you'll see many old cars from their own manufacturers, and probably little or no American cars, as they didn't really mean much to them.
Can we please compare apples to apples??
20th Aug 2010, 14:28
Yeah, muscle cars are ridiculously overpriced, because every rich guy wants to have 3 of them in his garage. Barrett Jackson type auctions drove the prices so far out of reality it is crazy. With the latest economic trend, it is nice to see some of these old cars start to come back to reality. If cars were needed like houses are, we'd have had a second economic meltdown, as the profits and prices made were very unrealistic.
I still see some cars like the Hemi Cuda's and Boss 429's way into the 6 figures. I love cars, and if I had millions of dollars, I would never pay that for an old car. People have money to burn, and have driven the market way out of proportion to what it should be.
20th Aug 2010, 14:42
So you have to buy certain cars from GM in order not to get shafted?? Huh, I guess I should pay ridiculous amounts of money for trucks that get 14 mpg so I can have a "good" vehicle.
I'll take my Toyota any day over your TB SS, as it is plenty quick enough with its 270 HP V6, is smooth and handles better than pretty much anything GM puts out SUV wise, and it already gets in the mid 20's for mileage at 700 miles, so it should easily eclipse the 30 mpg mark once fully broken in. I'm not too worried about longevity either, as every Toyota or other import I have owned has surpassed my expectations of quality and reliability.
I guess if you have money to waste on overpriced vehicles and GAS, then more power to ya. I, on the other hand, take the more economical route that is better for me, and better for the environment, while sacrificing NOTHING. No one I have ever known has had really good luck with any GM product.
20th Aug 2010, 14:53
You would think you would see one a day, as there were plenty of 70s Celicas and Corollas in my large town. My college had many Toyotas. I bought a new loaded 77 Celica GT; not cheap, as it imitated the great 69 Mustang styling. There were a lot of them, and none today. I wish I could go back in time and buy and park many used ones. Now to buy even one nice domestic I like, it's very high and many times the price new.
20th Aug 2010, 17:25
In addition to producing cars that are more reliable and higher rated than Japanese cars, GM and Ford are both now making huge profits. Ford never took any government aid, and GM has already repaid the 7-billion dollars in loans.
A national news source today reported that GM has started selling stocks again, and the remainder of the taxpayer's money will soon be repaid with interest, as the company once more returns to the status of a privately owned business with stockholders. People screamed bloody murder about the "government bailout" of Chrysler in the 70's, but it too turned out to earn the government (us taxpayers) more money than was loaned to them. The cars Chrysler subsequently turned out after the "bailout" of the 70's were some of the best-built and most reliable cars in the world. My family owned two of those cars, and one made just under a quarter of a million miles with no problems, while the other (a Dodge Ram truck is STILL in use with over 270,000 miles and going strong.
I have to laugh when I see accusations that domestic manufacturers are "paying off" rating services. What do you think Japanese companies did to create the whole myth that Japanese cars were superior in the first place?
20th Aug 2010, 17:26
10:08 Incorrect, I see many imports at various charity shows such as British cars; many unreliable, but they're in groups coming in. Big show turnouts from multiple states.. Many cars such as 60s and 70s MG, Triumph, Jags, Healys, TVRs appeared last year with me at a large Vets hospital show. Also many VW models, including a Bug with semaphore turn signals still on the road. I saw a lot of Ferrari and Porsches etc. in the mix, all with clubs. It's not domestic only on Cruise Nights anymore either. I like to see all kinds of cars appear, and no Toyotas or Hondas yet. I have been in shows since 1988, and have seen what has appeal. Maybe one will turn up. I go to multiple states maybe, but I feel it's highly unlikely to see a 70s there.