18th Aug 2010, 14:23
I'm sorry to hear it took you so many times to learn a lesson about GM. It only took ONE GM vehicle to teach us a lesson. At 40,000 miles our '95 Lumina was sent to the junk yard as the engine had thrown a rod.
A very good friend of mine bought a '99 Chevrolet Silverado BRAND NEW. Over the course of 3 years (and only 30,000 miles) the transmission was replaced THREE TIMES. After the third transmission replacement, the truck failed inspection. The reason? The frame had almost completely rotted out! The mechanic who inspected it said he was amazed that the truck was still together (I saw the truck myself after that, and I have to say I agree with him).
My next door neighbor (a very elderly woman whom I help with running errands) bought a 2006 Chevrolet Malibu Maxx brand new (I brought her to the dealership to pick it out). She had her heart set on a Chevrolet. It now sits in her driveway completely undriveable, as the steering is so loose it took me 3 tries to line it up with her driveway to park it the last time I took her out for errands. (Honestly I'm not sure why she needed the car in the first place, as I'm the one who usually drives it, but that's another story).
My son bought a 2008 Chevrolet Malibu also BRAND NEW. He raved about it and told me that Chevrolet had really picked up in the quality department. I recently brought him down to the Honda dealership where he bought a used 2008 Civic, as his Malibu's engine blew at 35,000 miles.
GM builds the absolute worst vehicles on the planet as far as I'm concerned. And like you, I've had enough experience to generalize them as junk as well.
18th Aug 2010, 15:37
Yeah, I'll never understand why anyone thinks companies that are on the brink of failure produce such high quality cars. GM has been cost cutting for a long time to try to stay afloat, and it surely shows in the longevity (or lack there-of) of their vehicles.
18th Aug 2010, 22:05
The new Corvette has to be the greatest bang per buck on the planet and I have had zero issues. Great GM vehicle.
19th Aug 2010, 07:42
Companies that paid well and offered benefits are not indicative of a lack of quality. Other than lowering the quality of life for employees to meet cheaper wages. My imports I bought after 2000 have had more issues than ever as well. I stopped buying them and have seen far better quality with all domestics. We also had some of each at the same time for many years. I feel the low production made in Japan only models were far better in the past. Maybe getting more cars out the door fast is part of the reason than before.
19th Aug 2010, 14:58
I wonder if 15:37 has even driven one of the newest Vettes vs generalizing every model. I have over 50 fellow Vette club members driving C5 and C6 GMs; no issues.
How about a mint documented 69 Camaro Z28 appraised at 45K, and easily selling as an example? I have friends that are driving late model Vettes from the profits on a 60s GM. Sell your 70s import and see if you can pay cash for a new Toyota or Honda. If they are built to last, where are they today?
The Toyota was the number one import, sold mid 70s, surpassed VW in America. Where are they at?
I divide my time in the Northeast and Fla; not seeing all the 70s that were sold.
19th Aug 2010, 17:51
Yeah, comparing a Vette to anything else GM makes is like comparing apples and oranges. They are built with much stricter guidelines and quality control than ANY GM car ever is. This is why they are about three times the price of any other normal GM car, except maybe a Caddy or something.
Also, who drives a Vette around as a daily commuter, when you're running kids all over, and need to pick up groceries and stuff? Vettes are weekend warriors, and generally see about a tenth of the miles of the average car.
Average GM vehicles like Trailblazers and Malibu's are horrendously poor in the quality dept!
19th Aug 2010, 18:23
Not anymore. GM sales are handily outpacing Toyota every month for this year. They are making billions in profits (though slightly less than Ford).
As for quality, look at the data: Toyota currently ranks 21st out of 33 auto makers in initial build quality. Both Ford and GM have more cars in the top three categories than ANY Japanese auto maker. I guess that has a little to do with people's perception of quality.
Also, as comment 14:58 so aptly points out, there are no 70's Hondas or Toyotas, while on a 20-mile trip you will encounter several PRE-70's domestic vehicles. Every day on the freeway, I see several Fords, Chevys, Buicks and Oldmobiles dating back to the early 70's.
In my parking garage at work, there is a beautiful 1973 Olds 98. It's probably worth considerably more than a new Accord or Camry, and it's obviously been more reliable.
20th Aug 2010, 08:12
17:51 I know many daily driven late model Corvettes. I am in a large club When the weather is great most days here, I drive mine to work and long distances. Many of the shows on weekends are a few hours away as well. No hesitation, and some of our wives have Vettes too that drive in caravans or beside us. They are extremely reliable and are really better than many exotics for everyday use.
The guy condemning GMs may only have driven a couple of low end models long ago. Most of us with newer Vettes have kids too, but they drive their own cars. Most with Vettes have a nice SUV such as a Trailblazer SS to go to malls and with the family. I don't like my Vette banged up in malls. And many I know have nice loaded Avalanches or Silverados with rear seating. They are not inexpensive Most of us upgrade them as well vs repairs after purchase.
I have had great luck with our vehicles. Take my Corvette convertible out and cruising the long winding coastline is worth every moment. I am not in the shop every 4000 miles getting my valves adjusted or needing my engine dropped for a tune up. Even many that have exotics own a few new Vettes to run hard and everyday. If they were not built well and it's not a financial consideration, they still buy GMs.
I have had great luck with our new GM models, and there is a great warranty. Although it has not been needed. If you buy the GMs I have, I would be surprised if you did not be happy driving them everywhere. Enjoy your day!
20th Aug 2010, 08:49
Okay, here we go again. First, the sales figures are mostly due to the better deals you can get on domestic vehicles. I bought a Ford because of the huge rebates and other incentives available. Even the sales manager at the Ford dealer admitted their sales were heavily padded by these incentives. GM is no different. Of course they have such a superior warranty, which everyone keeps going on about. You know the SAME 5 year warranty that the imports offer? Oh, of course if you are one of the 5% of people that drive more than 60K miles in 5 years, then you have a better warranty. See, more marketing hype!
Second, think about this very carefully. How do you turn around a dying business that the whole country is reliant on for survival? Make them look good any way you can. Enter the ratings companies. Gee, American car companies were just about wiped out, and lo and behold, ONE YEAR later they top every quality chart and survey. Yeah, no one is controlling that are they? You are falling for marketing hype and advertising there.
In my personal experience, GM has been so far below every other brand I've owned in quality. I will never venture onto one of their lots EVER again. J.D. Powers hasn't offered to pay all of my ridiculous repair bills on GM products, so I don't really care what they say or anyone else for that matter. Funny how when Toyota was atop all of the lists, they were paying people off and such, but the domestic companies are earning it. Like I said... funny!
Really, buy what you like. I am sticking to what works for me. I have the Ford right now, and at 20K miles the SYNC system has failed twice, but the rest of the car seems okay for now... we'll see. I never have had to flat bed an import to the dealer at 8K miles though like this car. The SYNC killed the battery to the point it couldn't be jumped. Good thing it was home in my driveway, and not out in the middle of nowhere!
I will probably go back to an import next for more solid reliability... that isn't bought!
And why people keep going on about 70's cars is beyond me. Japanese cars didn't take off in the states until the 80's, and really the 90's. They were basic transportation and little econoboxes. Hardly collectible. Do you see Pintos or Vegas all over the place today? Also, Americans don't covet Japanese cars as historical like we do our own. If you were in Japan, you'd probably see many more 70's Toyotas than 70's Chevys or Olds'. That Olds you spoke about is 1. Rare, and 2. most likely they paid A LOT to restore it. Unless you live in the dry southwest, cars like that aren't running around as everyday drivers. Up here in NY, they dissolved into rust buckets in 5 years, and were scrapped for new ones. Honestly, I don't see many 70's cars at all around here. I do, however, see many 90's to early 2000's Toyotas and Hondas around. Probably 3 to 1 over the domestic brands.