24th Nov 2005, 21:26
Wow, a lot of confused kids. To the kid that said that "Turbo" is the replacement for displacement, you've forgotten that v8 guys can have both turbo and displacement while a little 4cyl engine can only have the turbo. In the end, there simply is NO replacement. Turbo is merely a bandaid and one that v8 can employ as well.
Another misconception is the one with v8 engines being heavy and guzzling lots of gas. My z28's Ls1 engine weighs less than Honda's C32B 3.2L v6 in the NSX and almost all other Dohc v6's. My Ls1 engine is also more compact than said engines physically despite displacing so much more. My z28 also gets 19city mpg and damn near 30mpg highway and that's with me making 306rwhp (stock). I'm making the same fuel economy as a 194-210hp 4cyl DSM and much better fuel economy than cars with similar power as my z28 like the Supra TT, E46 M3, etc...
I love 1G and 2G turbo AWD DSM's and am a HUGE fan of the 4G63, but the BS in this thread is laughable.
25th Nov 2005, 13:08
I don't even see why the heck you all are trying to compare a ricer (awd I might add) with an American muscle car in the first place. They're not even in the same class. Go compare your TSI's with an EVO; or better yet, since we're all making stupid comparisons, why don't you compare it with a Nissan Skyline for that matter seeing as how that car is 2 cylinders closer to a 4. And you think these mustang people are giving you a hard time. I own an '04 Mustang GT, and the rumble that comes out of that dual exhaust is something that can't be matched by ANY little 4 cylinder car. I don't care how many holes you punched in that muffler or how big the spoiler may be. When it comes down to it, the mustang will always have it's place and as for the talon, it was nothing more than a skid mark on the underwear of the automotive industry.
22nd Jan 2006, 06:09
Hello all, I have been reading up on all of your comments about Mustangs vs Talons, DSM etc. A lot of good points have been brought out, and bad ones for both cars. I have a few things to say about both cars, good and bad of course.
First off the Talon/DSM: The 2.0 4g63 5 speed turbo all wheel drive puts out about roughly 210-215bhp @ 4500-5000 RPM, generating a 0-60 time of 6.8 seconds and a 1/4 run of 15.1 @ 91mph boosting at the factory 6.5 PSI... with a top speed (governed 95-98 135mph) 90-94 all out at 141mph. Not bad for a factory 4 banger set up for reliability and good gas mileage.
It really isn't that expensive to modify the car. An average t3/t4 Garrett turbo will run you about 550-750$ along with a Greddy stage 3 intercooler with piping and BOV @ $1500. Now get a full HKS catback exhaust with high flow cat ($789), and a custom exhaust manifold ($350) along with Fidanza cam gears ($279), and you got a street strip car for about $3700. Turn up the boost to 15 PSI and you're in the 11's @ 121 mph with about 350bhp in about a 3100lbs car. This is way more than enough for even the power hungry grunts out there. Think about it, a McLaren F1 runs the 1/4 in 11.6 @ 139mph and costs today a whopping million dollars, if you can find one for sale.
Now on to the Mustang: A 94 5 speed GT 302 puts out about 215 horsepower @ 4200 RPM, generating a 0-60 time in about 6.6 seconds with a 1/4 mile time of 15.0 sec @ 89 mph. Not bad at all for an all out motor stock. Now pump about the 5k into it and this is what you'll get: a Vortech supercharger at 6.5 PSI for about $3200, along with a full Magnaflow cat exhaust ($279), MSD ignition module ($579) and JET PERFORMANCE reprogrammer ($269) and you have a grand total of... $4300 roughly. This will put you in the (SORRY MUSTANG GUYS, BUT IT'S TRUE) mid to low 12's @ roughly 114mph. Then on top remember, your engine wasn't built on turbo or boost specs, so it won't be able to handle all of the additional punishing power as well as the turbo built engine. IT WASN'T BUILT FOR HIGH HORSEPOWER, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. In the long run your horses will turn to ponies and then eventually die if not taken apart and built properly, which in the long run will run you an additional 2 grand.
But all in all, let's face it, you really do have the same performance believe it or not. The specs don't lie (http://www.supercars.net/cars/2153.html).
One last thing before I end this comment/education class. The four banger really is the better bargain if it's for performance and RELIABILITY, however with the Stang built to the demand, it will truly be a tough guy to be dealt with.
P.S. The comments where made for fast street/strip mods, not full out drag racing.
21st Feb 2006, 11:33
I have a 95 Talon, with no forced induction whatsoever, pushing 335hp with a stock drive train and axles.7 months ago I said to myself id never add forced induction to get power out of it, and the same now applies. I wanted to be different and not fall into that kind of thinking, and it paid off marvelously. It handles like a dream, and crushes almost all turbo 4bangers in a straight away, with a monstrous growl coming from the valves. It was Dyno'd on one built mainly for Mustangs, so its possible that it could have even higher numbers. And that power to weight ratio is bull@#%! Saleens are fast, I've had friendly races with one, and am not afraid to say I lost. Friendly races with a SS Camaro, littered with wins and losses. You can just never really know until you take off your street tires and hit the track. An engine is an engine, a mod is a mod, and money equals HP, not the make or model.
8th Mar 2006, 08:59
For the haters, check out http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?Page=1
Indeed there are many Talons with some very impressive numbers. This site is backed up by time slips, shows turbo type, whether nitrous was used, and a ton of other stuff. The 4G63 was probably the most overbuilt little engine there was ever made, and can be cheaply doubled in horsepower very easily while still remaining safe, reliable, and streetable.
With the fastest one to date (obviously not stock engine parts anymore) at 6.97 @ 198 in the 1/4, it really is the fastest 4 cylinder to ever grace this planet. Please check out the site before you hate.
It won't help to try to convince any non-believers, they have to see it for themselves. Anyone who bad mouths one hasn't been to the track, because the track is littered with them, and there are a lot running fast times.
Here's one running a 396 Camaro in Denver, CO. It cracks me up to hear people say they are fast off the line, but slow down after that. In the video it keeps putting distance on the Camaro (which ran a 14.5 @ 94, remember this is 5800ft).
This car is full weight and simply has an upgraded turbo and probably $2000 in supporting mods such as a fuel system and such. In Denver a stock LS1 won't break in to the 13s, the air is just too thin and altitude really robs power (visit the LS1 forums and ask about 1/4 times at altitude). So $2000 in supporting mods to be significantly faster than a stock LS1, that's nothing to laugh at.
Come on, I love muscle cars and there are some great new ones coming out, but give the Talon some credit. Sure, a V8 with huge displacement has greater potential as far as adding a turbo goes, but the average guy isn't doing that...