20th Nov 2006, 10:34

I'm not going to admit I'm wrong since you're the one harping on about the Honda being a better engine all day, and that it outperforms the Ford (which clearly it doesn't, and I have proved you wrong on more than one occasion).

21st Nov 2006, 04:56

I never dismissed the Cosworth engine once in this whole argument.

Just because personally I prefer modern engines, and in my opinion (and we're all entitled to one) modern technology has improved engine design and performance beyond what the Cosworth engine has to offer.

But for you to say the Japanese have NEVER bettered the Cosworth engine is just asking for trouble.

Yes, I have been comparing the Cosworth to Honda engines, because I know more about Honda engines than I do other Japanese engines. But for you to say that it's never been bettered will surely get Evo, Supra and Skyline owner's backs up a bit... And indeed Honda owners too.

And the reason Honda have never used turbos or superchargers in the past is because:

1. They don't believe in using them, when they have VTEC to up the power figures while keeping fuel costs lower

2. Without the use of said turbo or supercharger, it bestows better reliability and longer engine life, in part due to lower running temps of engine and oil.

3. It gives them the excuse to show the world how to build an engine capable of revving to 9000 RPM on a daily basis, without it going bang.

4. As you probably know, in Japan they have a horsepower limit of 276 BHP that the government have imposed, and if they added a turbo to some of their engines, the power goes way beyond that.

Also would like to point out that the Integra Type R is widely acclaimed to be the best handling front wheel drive car ever, and the NSX is regarded as being one of, if not the best handling rear wheel drive car ever, thanks in part to Ayrton Senna, who assisted Honda on the set up of the suspension on the car.

21st Nov 2006, 05:53

Take your cars to Rob Walker, he is the legend with his gold seal reconditioning process.

There are numerous videos on youtube of his Carlton 1.8iL running 1000BHP!

23rd Nov 2006, 09:23

Don't know about the sierra weight, but mines the Escort which comes in at 1306 and the XR is 1330 kg (2.9 Model) Kg however my escort wieghts in at 1100 Kg (sound proofing) removed along with various other items.

24th Nov 2006, 11:16

How the hell did you lose 230kg??? take the engine out???

26th Nov 2006, 05:54

My mistake I meant how did you lose 206kg? not 230.

15th Dec 2006, 05:18

Who started this off by saying that an Escort Cossie only produces 225bhp from a 2.0 turbo then they're Honda whatever gets 190bhp from a 1.8 NA and could get 300bhp if they turbocharged it. That will be near the limits of the engine yet a Cosworth YB can be tuned to produce 872bhp!!! Most powerful 2-litre Cossie in Europe. And this is using an engine basically a 16-valve version of Ford's Pinto. So what if your Honda's engine is more modern!?

16th Dec 2006, 06:57

Ye I know that, but with a turbo you don't lose VTEC you can still rev to 9000 rpm, but have the turbo pull from about 4500 revs (on my turbo anyway) all the way through to the limiter. 700hp honda vtec turbo's are not hard to find just less of them about due to the cost. with the turbo and manifold, lower compression pistons, bigger injectors, uprated fuel pump and piggy back ecu for fuel control pretty much the basics for turning it into a turbo car it works out quite expensive. but the actual block is very strong and responds well to forced induction, I've seen civic turbo's running 35psi of boost and even 1 running at 42psi...that 1 prob didn't last long, but then again not many engines would at that pressure.

20th Dec 2006, 06:19

'2.2 is the correct engine size as per Honda's website!'

Wrong! It's a 2.0 Litre, always has been.

20th Dec 2006, 06:52

The UK Honda S2000 is a 2 litre. I think you're looking at Honda.com. Having said that, I'm a massive fan of the Cosworth engine. It may be old and a bit heavy, but it's a hard act to follow!

20th Dec 2006, 11:08

Omg another silly person thinking the s2000 is a 2.2.

21st Dec 2006, 00:45

The S2000 engine came in two variants of size depending on year and continent you live in.

When it first came out it WAS a 2 ltr engine, but they did then introduce a 2.2 a couple of years later.

Hope this solves this issue.

Still would rather have a Cossie lump tho!!!

22nd Dec 2006, 01:41

The UK S2000 still IS a 2 litre, and always has been.

22nd Dec 2006, 03:47

Only when you rev the nuts off it, the torque figures for the S2000 are only 150 lb ft (no turbo you see). And the cossie, like most turbos has a torque reading similar to the BHP reading, about 220 lb ft. Its torque that counts when it comes to acceleration and pulling power.

22nd Dec 2006, 13:58

No not really, diesels have high torque, but no BHP, petrol turbos have both good torque and BHP, VTEC's have high BHP, but no torque.

23rd Dec 2006, 09:40

High bhp and no torque... just like a F1 car then.

23rd Dec 2006, 13:10

UH no, not like an F1 car, F1 cars have a very high torque figre when compared to most road cars, and the fact they only weigh about 600 kilo's help too.

4th Jan 2007, 13:50

Better buy German.

7th Jan 2007, 12:29

You wanna go messing around with a turbo on a VTEC? a car never ment for turbo charging? your wallet, (and head gasket!) cars like the cossie have it all in place, and are hungry for power upgrades.

7th Jan 2007, 15:05

I have done it very succesfully and so have thousands of other people. the only basic things you need to do to ANY engine to add a turbo is change the compression ratio, up the fuelling and its done. (OK that's the bare minimum, but some people just do that. i mean you can even buy a bolt on turbo for a ford KA these days. just because a car doesn't originally come equiped with a turbo or a supercharger doesn't mean it can't take it.

7th Jan 2007, 19:02

I have had a N/A car, then had a turbo conversion. But this was a simpler engine it wasn't a VTEC. The very essence of a VTEC I thought would be incompatible with a turbo, (I expect there have been a few people saying "what was that") VTEC's (I thought) are about gaining power by generating already dangerously high revs. Turbos kick in at low revs giving very high amounts of torque, then carry on through the revs. (so in theory you should have lots of torque and high reving BHP) but if it was my car I wouldn't like the thought of 9000 RPM, a 44000 RPM turbine and lots of boost. So boost will have to be limited in theory to keep any sort of reliability. Much less than a non VTEC car. I don't know too much about VTEC, but that's just my understanding.

19th Apr 2008, 05:12

Yes, the Honda will most definitely keep up with and pass the Escort Cosworth!!

Forget 0-60 as any car with 4wd has advantage here. From 0-100 the Integra is about a second or more faster than the Escort, meaning after the 0-60 dash is done, which if I remember correctly the Escort can do in about 5.5 seconds (4wd) and the integra 6.2.. that's when the Integra cruises past all the way up to about 150mph, leaving the Escort standing.. and that's a 1.8 litre NA engine beating a 2 litre turbo.