1987 Ford Sierra RS 500 Cosworth from UK and Ireland - Comments

You need to do your research pal here is a nice example of the cossie capabilities and there are many others also http://videos.streetfire.net/comments/717798.htm.

My point was that the Japanese can make engines better now than an old cossie lump that's now like 20 years old!!!

Just an impartial comment on the subject, not taking in to account who is better honda or ford. A Honda car can rev to 8000/9000rpm with ease. if you take a look on autotrader for a old honda civic 1.8 vti (far from their fastest model) you will see that that revs to 8000rpm. The vtec doesn't even kick in untill 5200rpm.

Lets see in 20 years!

The cossie lump is so superior to any honda lump as proven in touring cars and many other types of motorsport etc...

I would happily swap my 306 GTi for an RS Cossie in any form!

There is something about the cossie and its fantastic engine that's gets many people into a stur!

If you told someone you had an honda that revved to 9000 rpm, they would be impressed, but then tell them you have RS 500 and most would try a bite your arm off for the keys!!

I'm not doubting the v-tec engines cos honda have taken it to another level, but as a whole the cossie lump is still feared today and for many more years to come!

I do agree tho on keeping the RS 500 standard,looks so much better!

My point was that the Japanese can make engines better now than an old cossie lump that's now like 20 years old!!!

This above comment is even more ridiculous yes cosworth lump is old, but it is still a fine engine that has a habit of making many cars a lot younger and more than twice its price look stupid.

Lets see how long the Honda lump will last (i bet 20 years from know it will be forgotten)

OK you still going on about it then.

Escort cos produces about 225bhp from a 2.0 TURBO engine.

Honda produces 197bhp from a 1.8 NA engine. just adding a turbo or a supercharger on low boost ups the HP to nearly 300bhp.but still in standard form its actually quicker to 100 (by 1.2 seconds) has better top speed (147) and better fuel economy (34mpg) than the cos.

Ye right cossie engines better.. don't make me laugh.

The facts speak for themselves so stop going on about it being a better engine.

I never said the cos was a bad engine (it was the best around at the time and still good today) just saying the new japanese stuff is better.

The honda 197 BHP VTEC engine is a 2.0 not a 1.8, But the thing is, you can get 200 BHP out of a 1.6 vauxhall engine without a turbo, its mainly the cams. You could put a turbo on a VTEC and get high BHP, but you could also fit lairy cams to a cossie and get the same thing. VTEC is just high performance cams that convert to economy at low revs.

See here we go again your quoting standard performance (which the cosworth still wins, then you go on to say oh, but if you add a turbo and a "x part" and a "x part" and x part" to the honda then the honda is better.

(get with the program mate if you add a chip to cosworth goes up to more than 225 if you increase th boost rate the cosworth bhp goes up to more than 300) If I bore out the cosworth to 2.4 litre I and get X cam lower the compression I get X bhp if I add extra injectors.

The list goes on!

The cosworth still is a better engine 20 years after its intial launch.

The Honda lump is not better, just accept it.

Wnd while we're on the subject the cosworth does not max out at 144 (had mine in its standard form wind up over 150 (with electronic timing gear clibarated also), 2 years ago and now its pushing over 500

I've seen a many engines with over 200 Hp without turbos and 16 valves this whole Honda argument is crap, you can get 200hp out of a 2.0 Pinto without turbos.

I like the this commment.

"OK you still going on about it then.

Honda produces 197bhp from a 1.8 NA engine. just adding a turbo or a supercharger on low boost ups the HP to nearly 300bhp.but still in standard form its actually quicker to 100 (by 1.2 seconds) has better top speed (147) and better fuel economy "

Err have a word first your saying the honda produces 197 bhp in standard form. (cosworth 227 standard from) look at the figures mate duh more powerful)

Better still you go on to compare modded with none modded.

Err well lets mod the cosworth also and then do a compare like for like mods and guess what?

The cosworth comes out on top.

For the record the cosworth in its standard form was pushing out 300. it was then de-tuned for general public highways.

To the comment on the 15th I'm talking about the b18c engine in the integra Type R not the 2.0 in the civic. they both produce 197bhp.

And my point about the performance was trying to compare like to like, if you take the turbo off the cossie that engine would struggle to get 150bhp. So my point about adding a turbo was just to even things up. And as for a 1.6 vauxhall engine reaching 200bhp with cams is a joke. The old 2.0 redtop engine (considered one of the best engines vauxhall produced) only produces 150bhp and even with a turbo in the Calibra they only produced 204... so 200 with a 1.6 I don't think so.

To compare like to like, turbo the b18c so its then a 1.8 turbo and it beats the cossie.

Even without the turbo it still beats the cossie in a straight line drag. and we are talking about engines and the fact remains an engine produced in this day and age is far superior to an old engine, that's true about all technology just face facts! and the only car you keep mentioned producing over 700bhp is the rs200 a car designed purely for comppeting in B spec rallying NOT A ROAD CAR!!!

And before you say it yes I know you could buy 1 on the road, but only 200 were made purely for the rules and priced like a supercar.I'm talking about engines fitted to road cars. civics integra's and s2000's.

If you want to compare like for like, then let's compare the rs200 to the japanese race car NSX producing in excess of 900bhp. Your initial point was japanese haven't bettered the cossie engine... how about the dozens of 900bhp supra's out there (326 standard) or the many skylines running well over 1000bhp some even 1200/1300bhp

ye right the japanese can't better it... been done many times over.

Well you can get 200 BHP out of a 1.6 16v vauxhall engine, like many other 1.6 engines, without a turbo with the right tuning, obviously I wasn't just talking cams. The calibra turbo may have 204 BHP, but like the cossie can be upped far higher. But what I was saying was the type R comes with high lift cams and the cossie comes with a turbo, neither have both, but it's a lot easier to put performance cams in a cossie than it is to put a turbo on a type R. Like for like would be the type R with a turbo and the cossie with the same sort of cams, But if you had both cars and loads of cash I bet the cossie would go higher than the type R any day. But they are not like for like they are different, stock for stock the cossie would beat it, turbos produce far superior torque.

To compare like to like, turbo the b18c so it's then a 1.8 turbo and it beats the cossie.

Like for like err let's see if the cosworth without high performance cam still has more power than the Honda, (put turbo on the honda, yes more power high performance cam).

But it not rocket science (put high performance cam on cossie) along with its standard turbo (ooo let's see cossie has more power again (than the Honda) oh dear I can see a patern here and it’s the cosworth that’s winning this competition.

Take a look more closely at the link I supplied. You will find the Cossie in there is a sierra DUH a ROAD CAR, yes that’s right a ROAD CAR and for you to suggest the cossie lump would struggle to make 150 without the turbo you really have no idea of the cosworths capabilities, absolutely NO IDEA at all.

Example one in Fast Ford mag (issue 246, an Escort Cosworth with 872 bhp using yb 1966 200 Block cosworth, this is a 2.0 litre block, not some hyped up 3000 cc like the Supra etc... so to suggest the Supra is better than the Cosworth is wrong.

While we're on the subject of performance; put high performance cams in the cossie lump (which it never had as standard) and take away its turbo, and the Cosworth lump is right up there without any effort - excess of 200 Bhp.

Ummm lets see the NSX is a 3.2 litre 6 cylinder V6 litre lump, the cossie RS 200 is 1.8. Shall we up the cossie displacement and get more than 750 Bhp! Answer err YES! More than capable.

Below comment is absolutely right.

The honda 197 BHP VTEC engine is a 2.0 not a 1.8, But the thing is, you can get 200 BHP out of a 1.6 Vauxhall engine without a turbo, its mainly the cams. You could put a turbo on a VTEC and get high BHP, but you could also fit lairy cams to a cossie and get the same thing. VTEC is just high performance cams that convert to economy at low revs.

You can get 200 Bhp out of a Pinto 2.0 without turbos and this is an engine 20yrs plus in age.

The Japanese have not (that’s right NOT!!!) done it many times over you’re the one with the miss guided facts.

So now you're telling me high performance cams adds more than 80 bhp? LOL Yeah right, and adding a turbo to my 1.8 with only 5.6 psi I'm running just over 300bhp, so you're telling me adding high lift cams to the cossie takes it from 225 to 300!!!

I don't think so, and try revving your engine to 9000 rpm and see how long it lasts.

And my engine is a 1.8!!! The civic engine is the 2.0 ivtec engine whereas mine is the (b18C). If you want a Honda 2.0 turbo then lets start with the s2000's 237bhp NA engine which beats the cossie without a turbo easily, add the turbo at say 7 psi and it runs to about 340bhp; more than enough to beat the cossie with high lift cams (cams won't give you 100bhp!!)

To sort this out once and for all lets take our cars on a track and see how well you do. My car vs your cossie.

And my engine is a 1.8!!! The civic engine is the 2.0 ivtec engine whereas mine is the (b18C). If you want a Honda 2.0 turbo then lets start with the s2000's 237bhp NA engine which beats the cossie without a turbo easily, add the turbo at say 7 psi and it runs to about 340bhp; more than enough to beat the cossie with high lift cams (cams won't give you 100bhp!!)

LOL more statements (adding a turbo alone will not give you an extra 100BHp) LMAO if that is the case then lets add 2 turbos to the cossie V6 and get over 400 Hp without the cams LMAO your soo full of bollox.

What are you talking about? The S2000 is a 2.2 not a 2.0.