1987 Ford Sierra RS 500 Cosworth from UK and Ireland - Comments

Big BHP for cosworths is not uncommon; what you have to consider is how they get the power down (uprated springs, dampers, bushes and wider tyres are some of the items needed in this field).

Once this is resolved, the cosworth is one of the best road/track cars going. With its 4x4 system in place, put one into any corner and it will destroy any 2 wd competitor! It has been proven many times over, 2wd traction is no match for a 4x4 from any manufacturer.

This whole honda/cosworth argument is pointless since both engines are good at what they do, it's just the cosworth that's better at it. Since it has been around for many years, there are lots of specalist companies building high performance cosworth lumps, years experience in this field cannot be dismissed even by those who compete in this area.

The whole argument has gone completely off the original topic.

Just to let you know to the above comment traction and cornering ability are 2 completely different things. traction is for getting away from a standing start and reducing wheel spin under hard acceleration, and of course 4wd is better in the wet. but in the dry it doesn't mean it corners better, yes of course it help, but it's a combination of tires, weight, gearing, chassis stiffness, suspension geometry and a host of other factors. there are many many clips on the net of 2wd cars out cornering 4wd cars round a circuit.

I never dismissed the cosworth engine once in this whole argument. just because personally I prefer modern engines and in my opinion (and we're all entitled to 1) modern technology has improved engine design and performance beyond what the cosworth engine has to offer. but for you to say the japanese has NEVER bettered the cosworth engine is just asking for trouble. yes I have been comparring the cosworth to honda engines because I know more about honda engines than I do other japanese engines. but for you to say that its never been bettered will surely get evo, supra and skyline owners backs up a bit... and indeed honda owners too. and the reason honda have never used turbo's or superchargers in the past is because 1.they don't believe in using them when they have VTEC to up the power figures while keeping fuel costs lower 2.without the use of said turbo or supercharger it bestows better reliability and longer engine life in part due to lower running temps of engine and oil. 3.it gives them the excuse to show the world how to build an engine capable of revving to 9000rpm on a daily basic without it going bang. and 4.as you probably know in japan they have a horsepower limit of 276bhp that the government have imposed, and if they added a turbo to some of their engines the power goes way beyond that. also would like to point out that the integra type r is widely aclaimed to be the best handling front wheel drive car ever, and the nsx handling is regarded as being one of if not the best handling rear wheel drive car ever thanks in part to Ayrton Senna who assisted honda on the set up of the suspension on the car.

Take your cars to Rob Walker, he is the legend with his gold seal reconditioning process.

There are numerous videos on youtube of his Carlton 1.8iL running 1000BHP!

Yes we are entitled to our own opnions (like I am mine) and not once did I say you weren't. The info you supplied is as I have pointed out many times in previous posts "your own opinions" think in future before you come on here irritating people, saying you believe Honda is better as you have slated the Cosworth, and you honestly expect people not to do exacly the same to your Honda?

What other type of response did you expect? Cosworth owners to agree with you and not get their backs up also? It's just not going to happen now is it???

I have proved more times than I care to mention how good the Cosworth lump is.

I agree there are plenty of other aspects into considering grip/performance as I have pointed out things such as bushes springs tyres etc acceleration is ususally better with 4x4 system since its grip is better (less wheel spin all 4 wheels are driving the car it can get the power down to the wheels better than a 2 wd (read my previous post).

2wd drive cars are fast, and I'm not here to say that they're not; I'm merely pointing out that as a general rule of thumb 4x4's are less likely to lose it on the corners than a 2wd system is. You can't deny that, especially in the wet.

Who cares about and engine revving to 9000 rpm how often during regular driving does the average person get to that kind or RPM it would be screaming and a very unpleasent drive not to mention vibrating like hell, I for one would not rev any car to that kind of rpm it would be far to noisey to be a pleasure to live with on a day to day basis.

This kind of RPM is better suited to race tracks or F1 most people want a car that's nice to drive comfortable and above all quiet and above all reliable.

There seem to be some pretty strong views towards these two different manufacturers and indeed between your own pride and joy. Cosworth have stamped their name in history. Ford made sure of that and did it well. They hammered the motorsport scene for a long time and as somone said they and still doing so in many ways now, but, there is no disputing how the japanese have crept in. Bringing in their imports to the uk has opened up a whole new era of tunning and motorsport. They produce some truely awesome vehicles based as somone else said on their 276bhp limit. Backing up the guy with the B18c (197bhp) Honda pruduce an absolutely awsome engine. From the little B16 (1600) found in the Civic CRX producing 160bhp to the crazy NSX.

The thing is which would be the king on the track, matey with his lairy Cosworth or the Guy with the B18C Turbo???

I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with the Honda, an Integra I take it. if so they weigh in at 1060 kilos and if pushing just over 300BHP is pushing an astonishing power to weigh ratio (280-300 BHP per ton) which I don't think matey's cossie could compete with!

The only way to prove it tho is a race!!!

Lets see how Ford and Honda really stand up to each other, arrange a track day and prove yourselves I say and many others like myself would probably travel a fair way to see this track day brawl!!!

Interesting comment, but since my cosworth is less than 1306 kilo around the 1100 mark and since its also worth noting I have 4x4 as well as 550 Bhp this would be no contest (what you have to consider here an Xr4x4 wieght in at 1330 kg with its heavy v6 engine since mine is only a 2.0 and wieghs consierably less the bhp to wieght ratio is around 400-500 Bhp per tonne.

Interesting comment on the 1.8i carlton vauxhall historically have made some great engines.

Rs owners club online say weight of sierra cosworth 4x4 is 1280kg add 10kg for cat model apparantly.

Don't know about the sierra weight, but mines the Escort which comes in at 1306 and the XR is 1330 kg (2.9 Model) Kg however my escort wieghts in at 1100 Kg (sound proofing) removed along with various other items.

How the hell did you lose 230kg??? take the engine out???

My mistake I meant how did you lose 206kg? not 230.

Removed all of the uneccesary elecronics for starters (eg Window motors Air con pump (that one item alone is very heavy and were in the England not australia (air con spends most of its time off) Sound proofing and a whole load of other items its not that difficult.

Yes buts it japanese crap that's not faster than my cossie.

Who started this off by saying that an Escort Cossie only produces 225bhp from a 2.0 turbo then they're Honda whatever gets 190bhp from a 1.8 NA and could get 300bhp if they turbocharged it. That will be near the limits of the engine yet a Cosworth YB can be tuned to produce 872bhp!!! Most powerful 2-litre Cossie in Europe. And this is using an engine basically a 16-valve version of Ford's Pinto. So what if your Honda's engine is more modern!?