2nd Nov 2008, 09:56
I've worked on Ford, Chrysler, GM, Nissan, Toyota, Honda, Volkswagen, Mazda and Mitsubishi. There is no "obvious" difference to ANYTHING on, in or under these cars. In recent years especially, most of the engine designs are extremely similar. All use similar devices to attach hoses, cables, etc. (except that Toyota does use cheaper and less flexible exhaust system mounting brackets on some models, such as the Tacoma). There is no such thing as "cheap" engine design.
Again we have no evidence, just opinion based on ad hype and the commenter's disappointment with a 10-year-old Ford that broke down at 200,000 miles. I HAVE looked under the hoods of these cars (REPEATEDLY). There is no "obvious" difference.
3rd Nov 2008, 20:21
09:56 Yes, there is such a thing as cheap engine design, and any Chevy or Ford engine is a prime example of it compared to a Toyota or especially a Honda engine. Do you really believe that the engine in an Aveo is built with the same quality as the engine in a Civic? Or that the designs are the same?? I sure hope not.
Again.. if the differences aren't obvious to you, they ARE there.
And any Ford I ever mentioned that broke down; and every one I've EVER been in contact with DID... were nowhere near 200,000 miles. Never saw one get even close to that without needing rings, a head gasket... etc. More like 40,000 or 60,000.
4th Nov 2008, 11:19
Please explain "cheap engine design". Also, the Aveo is an import, not a GM product. It is made in Korea and it's design is very similar in all respects to the Hyundai Accent.
And please detail and cite SPECIFIC cases of Fords that have had engine failures at 40,000 miles. I've never heard of that, and I'm a mechanic.
There ARE cases of Toyota Corollas documented on this site that had engine failures before 10,000 miles, and I had to go pick my wife up after our friend's Corolla broke down at 22,000 miles, stranding her and her friend. No Ford we have ever owned had any engine or transmission failures in the first 200,000 miles. That also goes for our Chrysler and GM vehicles as well.
4th Nov 2008, 14:00
I don't know why there is such a strong discussion occurring between Toyota/Honda and GM on this thread.
Certainly Toyota/Honda's engineering technology is leagues above and beyond Hyundai.
Furthermore GM's Research & Development budget is no doubt leagues above and beyond Hyundai.
5th Nov 2008, 09:59
No, Toyota and Honda are NOT "leagues ahead of Hyundai". The new Hyundais are actually better built and more reliable than either. In 2006 the Hyundai Sonata beat out the Toyota Camry in a 4-car comparison. That was 3 years ago, and Toyota has continued to go downhill. The current Hyundai Genesis is a world-class luxury sedan with a very high-tech V-8 engine that is aimed at the Cadillac, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes markets. Hyundai has come a VERY long way.
5th Nov 2008, 13:31
It's amazing the opinions so many people have about vehicles.
I can assure you people that my 2008 Santa Fe is superior in many respects to my parents' 2008 Lucerne or any American garbage I have owned.
Newsflash people: it is not 1988 any more and the Excel is long gone.
5th Nov 2008, 22:30
11:19 Well, EVERY domestic, but one, that I have owned has had engine or transmission trouble within 100,000 miles. I had a Dodge Dakota that went to 115,000 before the troubles began. Meanwhile NONE of my imports have had a problem, but one, and a minor one. A starter gone bad. You want specific examples of bad Fords? I can give you a lifetime of them (before I got smart and started buying Toyota's)... let's go all the way to the beginning.
My first car, a 1978 Ford LTD with the 302 in it, an engine that never should have been made. Drank gas like a 454 and gave you all the power of a 6 cylinder. My dad was struggling as the steel mills were closing and had to put an engine in that piece of junk at 50,000 miles. Then the second one failed, and he sold it.
Then, we had a 1987 Cavalier. Engine blew up, head gasket specifically, at 70-some thousand miles. Piece of typical GM disposable junk.
Then a Plymouth Horizon. THAT car was a rolling joke. Engine blew up at 80,000 or so.
Because I grew up in the woods, basically, everybody drove Fords and Chevy's. They've wised up since.
SO... I bought a 1987 Ford Ranger, which was the single biggest piece of junk automobile I've ever seen or heard about. I wrote a review about it, and I'm not going to tire myself out listing all over again all the things that broke. The list of things I DIDN'T replace is much shorter. Ford should have had the decency to just go out of business voluntarily out of shame for making that ridiculous piece of trash. Just like GM's Blazer... a complete waste of money.
Then I got smart. Bought a 1993 Toyota Tercel. Never a single problem. Traded it because I wanted a truck. A '95 Toyota truck. Perfect for years.
Then a 1998 Tacoma, my most recent Toyota. Perfect other than a starter around 100,000 miles. Sold back to Toyota for the frame rust recall, in which they did something that Ford or GM would never dream of doing, which is to treat the customer more than fairly when they have an issue. Bought it back from me for way more than I paid for it, and with 3 times the miles on it as when I bought it. You think Ford would ever consider that? Dream on. Not a chance.
Toyota has given me perfect vehicles every time, and when they did have an issue (not even their fault) they treated me in a way that was above and beyond fair.
I will never buy another garbage 'domestic' vehicle. Just like the millions of other people in the country who wised up and saw through the crafty advertising to realize Ford's and GM's are scrap. Just like they are today. A Toyota is a better value 100% of the time. Cheaper to own and drive, and give you more on the return. And I took a chance with this new Hyundai.. already I can see how much better it is than a Ford or Chevy. MUCH better design and construction.
So, if you can convince someone here to buy a Ford or GM before a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, or Hyundai, then they deserve to be stuck in a domestic.
6th Nov 2008, 08:07
09:59 I'm sure almost EVERY Honda and Toyota driver would beg to differ with your comments. Honda and Toyota are more expensive for a reason. Hyundai should not be compared to them, to do so is to do an injustice to Toyota and Honda. Instead Hyundai is more comparable to Kia (Same company)
6th Nov 2008, 12:10
"1978 Ford LTD with the 302 in it, an engine that never should have been made. Drank gas like a 454 and gave you all the power of a 6 cylinder"
The Ford 302 (referred to in later years as the "5.0") powered Ford vehicles for well over 3 decades if you count the years before it was increased from 260 C.I. and 289 C.I. to 302. These engines were used in many vehicles and definitely were more powerful than a 6. We ran a 302 Maverick with a high-rise manifold, cam and headers at local drags in the mid-70's. The car, which was a street-legal daily driver, beat Corvettes. The Boss 302 Mustangs were highly competitive on the racing circuits as well. A totally stock 302 Maverick would smoke the tires for half a block. Underpowered they definitely weren't. My last Mustang had the bullet-proof 5.0 (302) and on a rainy day it was dangerous because even with positraction it would break both rear wheels loose at 60 mph if you floored it.
As for reliability, many 302's from the 70's are still on the road with well over 200,000 miles and no major issues. Like the 3.8 GM engines, they were some of the most solid and reliable engines ever produced. The longest we ever kept a 302 was 145,000 miles, however it never had any problems and was traded in excellent condition.
Commenter 08:07 seems to have fallen for the "if it costs more it must be better" idea. Not so. Hyundai surpassed Toyota and Honda in reliability and overall value nearly a decade ago. Why doesn't Honda or Toyota have the confidence in THEIR cars to provide a 100,000 mile warranty like Hyundai has for years now?? It's simple. It would be too risky. Just because people are persuaded by ad hype that a car is "better" and "worth more" does not make it so. I work with millionaire clients, and I am amazed at how many of them use the Hyundai Sante Fe as a daily driver. Wealthy, smart people drive the best values. Not the most expensive.