12th Nov 2008, 07:10
14:52 It's funny how you pick out a select few specific example and then paint the whole thing with a broad brush. It doesn't work that way. Toyota has had more vehicles on the top of any quality/reliability survey that you'll find than any other manufacturer, by far, followed only by Honda.
Overall, Ford have taken a well earned beating in those surveys for decades, if even appearing at all.
I used to read Consumer Reports' list of used vehicles to avoid, and practically every Ford automobile on the market was always on there, while there were only a couple, if ANY Toyota's. Your one or two examples don't change any of that.
Want to talk about embarrassing? It's not even worth arguing on my end, really. By the look of things, neither GM or Ford will even be around much longer, unless the government has the mercy to bail them out of their sad state.
Consumers have chosen which vehicles to buy, and it's Toyota's and Honda's, because they're top of the line. Not Ford's and Chevy's.
So I suppose now you'll mention the fact that the F-150 sells well? Doesn't change the big picture. And that is that they are in serious trouble. Should have built better vehicles, and maybe people would still be buying them.
12th Nov 2008, 21:52
This is my review, and we're supposed to be talking about my car, and ones like it. Here's the deal - this new Accent is nothing short of being a great car. And since you guys want to compare it to other makes, here's what I know - it's light years ahead of any Ford or GM car. I know, I've owned them.
I can't say that it's as good as any of my Toyota's or Honda's YET, but I can say that it's only a half step behind in initial quality. When it proves itself as flawless over the years like my Toyota's have, I'll call it equal to them. Not yet.
But still, I am thrilled with it. Better than expected gas mileage every time, solid build, fun to drive, reliable so far.
13th Nov 2008, 10:44
Yes, we are SUPPOSED to be talking about the Accent. But we keep seeing unfounded attacks on domestics and cheerleading for the destruction of the American economy. That angers many people who care about the future of our country and who have driven countless domestics hundreds of thousands of miles without problems. We have seen dozens of requests to offer up proof of these wild statements that "GM and Ford are crap". We have yet to see one single piece of data to support those attacks. Instead we have seen much evidence to the contrary, and a total refusal to deal with the recent (and VERY verifiable) downturn in import quality and reliability.
When someone offers a review of his car, that's all well and good. When he constantly uses that review (and countless others) to attack the U.S. auto industry and root for a major economic recession he invites comments to counter his invective. When he calls ALL domestics "Crap" based on his poor experience with one 20-year-old used domestic, it invites comments to the contrary.
The Hyundai IS a very good car. It is far better in reliability than Toyota. It has had the confidence to offer a 100,000 mile warranty for quite a few years now, even though neither Toyota nor Honda STILL has the confidence in their products to do this. Their warranties are still the worst in the industry except for the little Smart cars (which have a 2-year warranty). Domestics have proven themselves in every segment, from economy cars to sports cars. Sales of the Corvette have increased 300% in Europe since they began competing in Grand Prix races there.
The current problems with domestic auto makers has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with the American desire to have everything "bigger and better". No one held guns to the heads of people who rushed out in droves to buy huge, gas guzzling SUV's, so U.S. auto makers strived to meet their demands. Then $4 a gallon gas hit and all of a sudden keeping up with the Joneses was a tad too expensive, so thousands of SUV's sit gathering dust on dealer's lots. Bad management? Not really. Bad choices by consumers based on big egos.
14th Nov 2008, 21:36
Just caught the CR "Best and Worst" for 2009. Cover car was one of those "crappy" Ford Fusions, which is STILL the highest rated car in reliability that CR has ever tested.
14th Nov 2008, 22:02
10:44 You continue to make the mistake of misunderstanding the whole warranty issue. Your thoughts on it are incorrect. Why would the two automakers with the consistently highest reliability and quality rating NOT have the confidence to offer a long warranty? That's poor logic.
Regardless of what you say, the truth is that their vehicles sell well based on their proven reliability, and that doesn't need to be backed up with an overly long warranty. GM needs the long warranty because of their well deserved reputation for making poor vehicles in order to try and sell them.
And to say that all of the consumer's who've exercised bad judgment by buying a Toyota or a Honda is nothing short of denial. And the facts are: Toyota, Honda, and yes, Hyundai make far better cars than Ford, GM, or Dodge. Sad but true.
15th Nov 2008, 12:11
"Why would the two automakers with the consistently highest reliability and quality rating NOT have the confidence to offer a long warranty? That's poor logic."
Why WOULDN'T they offer a longer warranty if their quality and reliability is so high? THAT is poor logic.
16th Nov 2008, 21:15
12:11 The answer to your question, whether you like it or not, remains as fact: Toyota doesn't need to offer a longer warranty to sell cars like GM does. That's it. Believe it or not, it makes no difference to me. It's fact. OBVIOUSLY. They make the most reliable (read ANY study, read Consumer Report's latest...), best selling cars in the United States and the world. Period. With a shorter warranty than GM. I'm only stating facts, if you want to argue FACT, then I have nothing else to say to you.
18th Nov 2008, 10:32
Finally an admission that no objective evidence can be presented to back up the claim that imports are superior to domestics. Nothing but opinion has ever been presented to back up such statements, and obviously nothing but opinion will EVER be submitted. Our challenge for real proof goes unmet.
19th Nov 2008, 15:39
I wouldn't have any objection in switching from my 2005 Chevy to a Honda/Toyota - in fact I am thinking 09 Toyota Auris.
Hyundai/Kia are not the choice of the young professional.
To claim that Hyundai have now overtaken Toyota and Honda and are now competing with Mercedes is one of the funniest things I heard all day.
19th Nov 2008, 21:25
10:32 The proof has been written a million times. I can't help it that you can't accept the truth. It's your loss if you're driving something other than a Toyota or a Honda. I feel sorry for you. Maybe someday the light will dawn..
20th Nov 2008, 16:57
Hyundai makes a good product - I have the Entourage, considering the Accent as a replacement commuter - currently have a 99 Cavalier, which has been trouble free. The 3 door Accent looks pretty sharp... I remember the old Accents were quite decent cutting through the snow. Assuming it's the same with the new ones?
All car makers have suffered from build issues at one time or another, and unfortunately where the big 3 went wrong, was that they're target market was "the people that want to keep up with the Jones'" which is where they ran into difficulty. Chrysler CEO was the only one to admit it during their begging session. This was a lack of foresight, and now they are paying for it - and unfortunately if they get bailed out, so will everyone else.