7th Dec 2009, 09:54
To Mr. Fusion - I drive a domestic, pay taxes, and was born here in the USA, but I must say that I believe your argument is a very flawed one and your figures questionable.
The US Automakers would not need to outsource at all if they had shown planning and foresight, not to mention building a quality product to begin with. It seems to me that the Big Three only began to improve the quality of their vehicles when the imports were threatening their piece of the pie, because many imports (especially those built from the late eighties and thru the nineties) were assembled with far more care than the domestic cars of the same time period. I would also have to say that the shoddy workmanship of domestic cars of the 1970's certainly opened the door to foreign competition.
I would like to see the day come when you stop blaming your hard-working fellow Americans, and acknowledge that the US Automakers (along with the unions) had a major role in their own downfall.
I would like to add that I do not nor have I ever owned a Toyota, but your bashing of Toyotas is way off base. Even though I own a domestic, I would buy a Toyota long before I would ever even consider a Ford again.
Twisting and distorting facts, and stooping to unfounded rhetoric is no way to get your point across.
It is one thing to give your opinion, but it is another to distort facts & figures in order to damage the reputation of companies & businesses.
As far as your contempt for your fellow Americans that happen to drive imports - well the fact that I drive a domestic DOES NOT make me "patriotic" or "unpatriotic".
I am not going to wrap myself in the flag to make a point - I will just say that I am just as much a loyal American as you are, and as an American I find it very distasteful to see anyone judging their neighbors based on what kind of car is parked in their driveway.
7th Dec 2009, 10:02
What you say is 100% true, of course, but let's not fall into the same category as brainwashed import owners. Yes, the Camry is not very reliable any more (and was NEVER as reliable as ads and biased magazines made it out to be), however, let's not wish for ANY company to fail. People being out of work is very bad. I don't wish that on anyone. I think people are waking up to the fact that current domestics far surpass Japanese cars in reliability and build quality. That's obvious if you look around. Toyota now holds the WORLD'S RECORD for the most recalls. Honda has been exposed for its bad transmissions.
It amazes me that import owners actually cheer for the destruction of U.S. jobs. I DON'T want to be in that category. I want everyone to have good jobs. By waking up to the myth of "superior" Japanese cars, Americans are turning things around. Even in bankruptcy, GM is outselling Toyota, and Ford can't order enough Fusions to fill the demand. Also, remember that 99% of import buyers know very little about economics and are duped into thinking that if Toyota and Honda build several dozen cars here, they are "helping our country". Not remotely true, of course, but people don't know any better.
As for the old Crown Vic, Delta 88's and Impala/Caprices you are also 100% correct. NO Japanese car EVER lasts as long as these vehicles do. You'll like this: I recently sold one of my newer cars and have decided to buy a very old car (pre-1985) as a second car because they are so easy to work on and cheap to fix due to less reliance on complicated electronics. I looked at ads for pre-1985 cars and found literally DOZENS of pre-1980 GM, Ford and Chrysler cars. There were ZERO Japanese cars listed... NONE. What does THAT tell you about how THEY last? I've pretty much narrowed my choices down to a 1973 Olds Delta 88 coupe (gorgeous car, all original, never an engine or transmission repair) or a 1973 Plymouth (likewise all original with never a major repair).
Keep up your support of American business, but go easy on the import guys. They honestly don't know any better. Three decades of brainwashing can create some strong myths.
7th Dec 2009, 13:18
You are so right about the MBZ 300D, I'd like to shake your hand!
I am a MBZ driver now and it all started when I bought a '83 Turbo Diesel. The car to this day has no rattles, no squeaks and will run with the best in the worst conditions. The reliability and steel quality is superior to anything Japan has ever made of any car, and the driving comfort and dynamics are extremely capable and relaxing.
Best thing though is the fuel economy, and now that I have learned to run it on a 70/30 mix of WVO and diesel fuel, it is truly fantastic!
Also, without question, the big body Grand Marquis' and Crown Vic's are the American working man, or rather the smart man's affordable limousine.
7th Dec 2009, 13:42
If someone decided to buy an import, it was likely because they experienced or felt that buying a domestic was a waste of their hard earned cash.
Reputations take a long time to build up, but a short time to be diminished. Any tradesman can tell you that.
Remember, as was pointed out earlier, Consumer's Report and many other auto journals for over that last ten years and beyond have regarded the Asian imports as 'Best Value' or Car of the Year' for reasons that included amongst others, superior reliability and fuel 'economy'.
On that basis alone, it seems that you are the one who doesn't know any better, even when the proverbial writing was on the wall.
7th Dec 2009, 15:01
"Three decades of brainwashing can create some strong myths"
Yes, perhaps the ones you keep repeating all over this site!
7th Dec 2009, 17:03
"Toyota now holds the WORLD'S RECORD for the most recalls."
Please furnish some documentation that will PROVE this claim.
7th Dec 2009, 17:25
There aren't any Honda's from that era because very few were sold in the U.S. at that time. Try the 90's. You'll find tons of nice Honda's. But good luck finding one with less than 450,000 miles! I haven't found one with any less than that. Most have more.
As for 1970's domestics, most of the ones that my parents owned in that era made roughly 100,000 miles before becoming complete money-pits. We were lucky enough to pick up a Honda Civic from that time period (a '73) and it lasted us over 500,000 miles according to old maintenance records. (Which consisted of oil changes, tires, brakes, and other maintenance items. Oh, and 1 starter and 1 set of shocks.)
7th Dec 2009, 22:55
Yes, I suppose you're right. Just let them find out the hard way. Good luck on your purchase of a true American classic. And if I ever find a 4-door delta 88 or 98 I'll add it to my collection. One things for sure though, I'll never sell my beloved Crown Vic and Grand Mar. Who knows, they'll probably outlast me!