30th Jan 2007, 16:13

Which part of the country are you in? Around here Lincoln is considered a car for limousine drivers and that's about it. A Zephyr, MKZ, or whatever its name will be next year has zero brand recognition and once people realize it's a Lincoln they will think somebody paid too much for a Ford (which they did).

Other than the Navigator (which lost out in prestige to the Escalade), Lincoln no longer has any presence or desirability.

30th Jan 2007, 20:54

"By the way, an MKZ is the same to a Fusion as an ES350 is to a Camry."

That is true, but the difference is that Camry is a reliable car so the ES350 was modeled after a good car. The Fusion has only been out for less than 2 years so only time will tell where that will go.

I do agree with the guy about the Contour. That car is complete crap.

30th Jan 2007, 21:45

Yessirree! P.T. Barnum made a fortune on that very concept! Step right up and see the Solid Muldoon!

31st Jan 2007, 08:35

You read the post wrong. He wasn't talking about American cars.

31st Jan 2007, 20:11

You have to wonder about the rationale of anyone who would actually BRAG about paying full list for something. With suckers like that it's no wonder Honda and Toyota make money. Even if you had a problem with a domestic (which is very unlikely, they are now MORE reliable than imports) you could use the 7 to 10 grand you'd save to pay for the repairs. Since no new domestic we have bought since 1988 has cost us ONE CENT for repairs, I just consider myself about 50 grand ahead!! I'd probably have spent that much replacing Honda transmissions.

1st Feb 2007, 08:21

Really? Wow, all the domestic reviews I've read on this site say the polar opposite. You must be the luckiest domestic buyer in this country.

I've never had a domestic or known anyone who has had a domestic that was anything but an endless nightmare.

2nd Feb 2007, 10:41

It's very interesting that so many import owners seem to know such a VAST number of domestic owners who have "nightmares" with them. I've lived in this neighborhood for 21 years and know most of my neighbors and their vehicles. My next door neighbor owns a very nice FORTY-ONE-YEAR-OLD Pontiac. It runs just fine. The neighbor across from me owns a 30-year-old Pontiac, as well as a 22-year old Ford truck. Another neighbor drives a 1983 Silverado that was bought new. My family traded in a 30-year-old Ford with 300,000+ miles on it a couple of years ago. It had never had a repair other than routine maintenance (3 brake jobs, belts and hoses). On the other hand our neighbor with the 4-year-old Camry has had it towed to the shop AT LEAST 3 times in the past year. I'm wondering just where all these "nightmare" domestics are hiding that import owners seem to know so much about. As for the Lincoln, my family has driven Lincolns since 1984 and not one of them has ever had a single repair ever.

2nd Feb 2007, 12:58

Oh, wow, that changes everything. You've proven everyone else wrong (including EVERY auto survey from JD Power to Consumer Reports) with your neighborhood.

And I guess all those people who are complaining what a piece of crap their Lincoln LS models are (see comments on this site) just don't live in your neighborhood either.

3rd Feb 2007, 12:42

Speaking of crap, has anyone looked at the TUNDRA reviews lately???

6th Feb 2007, 14:37

It kind of makes you wonder when you read comment after comment from actual owners of domestics testifying to their reliability and great build quality, but all you hear from import owners is "domestics are crap because we say so" without a SHRED of data or evidence to support such silly claims.

6th Feb 2007, 15:49

Nope, but I have looked at real crap like the Mark LT and Zephyr though.

6th Feb 2007, 19:00

Well, given Lincoln not only changed the name after one year, but added a bigger engine and other features, one has to wonder how great the Zephyr was to begin with. Also, it speaks volumes about what Lincoln thinks of its customers - "remember that great car you just bought? Well, it's crap, so buy this new one".

And, of course, this all enhances the resale value of the Zephyr - NOT.

8th Feb 2007, 23:08

Considering the recent landslide of recall problems (many of them dealing with life-threatening safety issues), plus TONS of mechanical defects in Toyota's product line and Honda's disastrous transmission problems I think I'd have a hard time feeling safe in one of their cars no matter how much money they make off their mindless robot fan clubs.

9th Feb 2007, 09:22

Oh, yes, best to stick with Ford with its solid gold reputation of building safe vehicles (Pinto, original Mustang, Bronco II, Explorer, Crown Vic) and quality vehicles (pick any one).

10th Feb 2007, 09:37

With the exception of the 1970-74 Pinto (which hasn't been built in 33 years) I'd have to say that ALL the vehicles listed in comment 09:22 ARE, indeed QUALITY vehicles. The original Mustang in mint condition now brings over $100,000 at classic car auctions (NO Japanese import will EVER do that), the Bronco II was (and still is) an incredible off-road vehicle still sought by hunters and sportsman. As for the Explorer, there was NOTHING wrong with it. Like all vehicles with high centers of gravity and incompetent drivers it was prone to roll over. Big deal. So are semis and farm tractors. The Crown Victoria has been a reliable and competent performer for police departments all over the U.S. for decades, racking up hundreds of thousands of miles per car in very adverse situations (uhhh...seen any CAMRY police cars lately??). If all the import fans can do is dig up cars that haven't been built in 33 years and rant about the (very predictable) results of incompetent drivers, I feel they are falling far short of making any valid argument. Toyota's problem with defective air bags, brakes, steering, front suspension, transmissions, oil leaks, coolant leaks and peeling paint are HERE AND NOW. Not decades ago. People are buying and driving these death traps on our streets AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

10th Feb 2007, 16:29

- Original Mustang has the gas tank near the bumper so is a death trap, classic status or no. There was an attempt in the 1990's by Mustang owners to sue Ford for the deaths caused by the car (of course the suit was thrown out since the Mustang met all federal guidelines at the time).

- Bronco II is one of the most unstable vehicles ever put on the road, with endless lawsuits to back that up.

- Explorer had a severe design flaw from 1990 - 2002 that made it more unsafe than the Bronco II. It has killed more people due to its design flaws than any contemporary car.

- Crown Victoria, as reported in Car and Driver, has KILLED many police officers due to its unstable nature in high speed manuveurs.

- American government agencies use American cars because they get cheap deals combined with misplaced patriotism- there is also a prejudice towards rear wheel drive, so you don't see many Ford Taurus police cars either. Police officers around here use Camaros as policecars and they are about the worst car for the job given they have no room inside and have horrible handling.

If you did any research you would know these things, of course.