20th Dec 2007, 10:00
It looks like Bob Lutz is on here making sure we know that they took parts off Mercedes to make their cars. Just like he reassured us of the Cobalt would be better than a Civic and other cars. I would also mention that Mercedes is an unreliable marque and the build quality has suffered in recent years. They are not over engineered like they used to be.
21st Dec 2007, 15:13
Commenter 14:13 might be surprised to learn that the only car on the reviews that I have seen requiring an engine in TWO MONTHS was a TOYOTA COROLLA. Check the reviews.
I've never personally known anyone who had to replace an engine in a domestic. I know I never have, and that includes a number with well over 100,000 miles.
The featured vehicle in Consumer Reports article on "How to get over 200,000 miles out of your vehicle" was a Ford Ranger with just under 500,000 miles on it with no major repairs. You need to offer facts or back up such statements. Domestic owners are offering facts and personal experience.
22nd Dec 2007, 15:42
So one Ford Ranger is going to sway you into the Ford dealer? I think people should just buy what they want. There are web sites full of Hondas and Toyotas with more miles than that Ranger. Did you see the consumer reports article? Most of the cars on there were Hondas and Toyotas. I did not see Tempos, Contours, Cavaliers, or Luminas on there.
You do see plenty of Honda Civics and Accords on there with over 300k. But no one will listen. They just go out and buy more and more Tauruses and Neons.
23rd Dec 2007, 18:18
I would like to see pics of all the gorgeous 200,000 300,000 mile plus Toyota rust-free examples with absolutely no issues such as non working a/c and with mint rust free bodies that are so great to own. I live in the Northeast and have not seen all these pristine examples. When is the last time you saw a 70-80's Celica on the road? Not cheap to buy at the time especially the GT; one would expect to see a few about. Are they a worthy candidate for restoration or just a disposable appliance-type vehicle? They certainly do not appreciate as much as a classic domestic such as my 1969 Camaro SS. What new Toyota or pick an older one can you buy today that can you predict will appreciate over 10 times its value in the future? I can also pick some recent domestics if you are interested.
23rd Dec 2007, 23:03
In no way is 1969 Camaro relevant to this discussion. Sure, it was a beautiful car, but it never had a prayer of going 2 or 300,000 miles like a Toyota will. It's nice to look at, but as an automobile, or a daily driver, next to useless. The gas mileage was horrid, they rusted out in no time, and got about 80,000 miles before they needed rebuilt. If you want an economical, trouble free car that will probably drive for 10 or 15 years without a repair, buy a Toyota. If you want to burn a lot of fuel, work on your car all the time, and have a lot of money to spend on engines, buy an old Chevy.
24th Dec 2007, 12:59
Go to consumerreports.org. They had many Toyotas and Hondas with high mileage. Japanese imports out numbered the GM/Ford by a lot. Sorry. And this is just one site. If you go looking around, you'll find many Toyotas and Hondas with 300,000+ miles.
Did you hear of that Accord that had 1.2 million miles on the original engine? Transmission?
24th Dec 2007, 13:44
The Camaro point was very relevant as many domestics can increase in value many times even in stock form... the relevance is where are all the restored pristine example old stock Toyotas with 200-300,000 miles that are not problematic, rusted or in junkyards? Without the collector aspect here's another question... When is the last time you actually saw a stock 70's or 80's Toyota Celica GT? Or a Corolla SR5 from the same era on the road?... or when is the last time you saw a late 70's Monte Carlo, Regal, Cutlass on the highway still out there and they are not collector status... I see them many times per hour on the interstates. So where are all the old Toyotas today?
24th Dec 2007, 14:27
23:03, unless you are putting 10,000 miles on a car in 10-15 years you are going to have problems with it, I don't care what kind it is. When moving parts get that old something is going to fail eventually.
My father has a '93 Toyota pick-up with 171,000 miles, which has racked up a lot more in maintenance costs than my Buick with close to 140,000. The Toyota rattles and shakes so much the term "rattle trap" certainly comes to mind, while the Buick glides down the highway in shear comfort. Remind me again how Toyota is so much better.
24th Dec 2007, 22:57
Comment 18:18 makes a valid point. You see very few decades old Toyotas, but thousands of late 70's thru mid-80's GM cars, especially the Big Buicks and Oldsmobiles which routinely went 200,000+ miles with no problems.
My family's 1977 Buick has 270,000+ miles and has never had a major engine or transmission repair. We've also owned Ford and Chrysler vehicles that also made 200,000+ miles easily with no problems.
It seems that import owners tend to throw out comments about domestics without any real knowledge or experience with them. In my daily commute the greatest number of broken down cars I have seen have been 90's Civics and later model Camrys. I have rarely seen a broken down domestic, especially a GM.
26th Dec 2007, 23:58
I see hundreds of 1986-1992 Accords on the roads. I drove a 94 Accord myself and it was far superior to my 1980s Chevrolet B car. I drove the Honda to 260,000 miles then traded it. It is still on the road. I guess it depends on where you live.
Take note that Buick, Oldsmobile, and Chevrolet were the top sellers between 1977-1984 and most of them were those B cars. So that is another reason to explain the surplus of these cars. I also have a few still in the family, but they only have 50,000 miles on them. Not enough to speak about reliability.
27th Dec 2007, 10:14
There seems to be an awful lot of misinformation floating around this site just for the sake of defending "American" cars. I can totally dispute the claim that anyone sees more Hondas and Toyotas broken down on the sides of the road. I drive to work on Highway 80 in California, which is the heaviest traveled road in the US. For one, Japanese cars are the best-selling cars in the state. People who commute long hours want something reliable. Hence Toyotas and Hondas are extremely common here. I Rarely see these broken down. But to be fair, the cars that I see broken down the most aren't domestics either. It's mostly European cars like newer BMW's and Mercedes. If you want to go after "imports" then why not got after cars like BMW, which even though cost 50-60, 70, or over 100,000 bucks are prone to mechanical and electrical failures?
This argument shouldn't be about whether you dislike things made in Japan because your Grandpappy fought in WW2, it should be about the differences in mechanical quality. Japanese cars are at the top of the list for a reason. Not because they're Japanese, but because they make good cars. If you'll notice, most European brands are scraping the bottom of that list. So if you're just in it to bash imports, then go ahead and bash those. At least you would be correct to assume that their hype and lauded reputation is perhaps undeserved.