2008 Toyota Camry XLE from North America - Comments

18:50. Is your story possible? Sure. Likely? Not a chance. I've never broken down in a Toyota, yet have broken down in all but ONE domestic vehicle I've owned.

I suggest everyone in this forum read "The United States of Toyota" by Peter DeLorenzo before flippantly commenting that destroying the U.S. auto industry is "their business if they choose to buy from a foreign company". His figures indicate that ONE IN FOURTEEN jobs in the U.S. is either directly or indirectly related to the U.S. auto industry. You may not even KNOW if your job is related to domestic car makers or not... until you get your pink slip.

My last domestic breakdown involved a flat tire... My last Honda issues were failed transmissions.

To comment 10:41: Yes, you really have to watch those "crappy American tires". They are so flimsy even a large nail can puncture them.

I never had one problem with my Honda's transmission. NOT ONE!! Of course I was too busy with the failed CV joints, massive oil consumption, electrical problems and massive engine failure (at 99,000 miles) to worry about the transmission. Yep, it sure was a fine, reliable car!!

"My last domestic breakdown involved a flat tire"

And what about the breakdowns before that? Oh yeah... they NEVER do.

I also like the "massive engine failure" comment. I've heard of massive heart failure. "Massive engine failure" is a new one. Gotta wonder if Honda will replace the "massive" part of your engine. Maybe Hondas just have particularly massive engines? Or perhaps "massive engine failure" is brought on by having to much "cholesterol" in your oil. Remember to change it every 20,000 miles whether it needs it or not. Or congestive engine failure? How about that? Or my personal favorite... perhaps it died from a case of bad gas.

FYI: The CV joints typically fail because the boot that protects them from road grime cracks at some point +/- 60,000 miles and is something that an owner should keep an eye on or just replace when they notice cracking. They are basically a maintenance item. Oh, I'm sure you'll say they failed at 36,001 miles right on the button so Honda wouldn't cover them. The stories that get passed around here... I bet there are even a few that are true!

"FYI: The CV joints typically fail because the boot that protects them from road grime cracks at some point +/- 60,000 miles and is something that an owner should keep an eye on or just replace when they notice cracking. They are basically a maintenance item. Oh, I'm sure you'll say they failed at 36,001 miles right on the button so Honda wouldn't cover them. The stories that get passed around here... I bet there are even a few that are true!"

No, the CV joints failed (well, started clattering loudly) at 40,000 miles. The "massive engine failure" was a broken CRANKSHAFT. That's about as massive as it gets. It was attributed to poor-quality metal casting. Since so many other things on the car were falling apart and the paint had faded to a chalky consistency, the car was sold to a salvage dealer. It had just under 100,000 miles. Good, I suppose, for the average Japanese car.

Not one of our front-drive domestics has ever required CV joints. The CV's on our Dodge were clattering when I sold it, but that was at better than 240,000 miles. It never even had the boots replaced or ANY servicing of the CV joints. Cars built by ANY Japanese company have components that are much flimsier and short-lived than those of domestic vehicles.

11:10.

Do you suppose that they're simply stripping higher quality rubber trees for those more powerful 200,000 mile boots? :)

The worst paint problems I've ever seen were on Chrysler products (especially the minivans) from the late 80s-90s. Chalky consistency? Yeah right. How about just plain peeling off -- usually from their hoods.

Your claims are both unlikely and an over-small sample. Every organization that rates vehicles based on large samples and numerical data suggest that your experience is an anomaly (and this includes all the vehicles that you haven't mentioned... but no doubt will).

I still like and own domestics, but I don't do so thinking that they are perfect... because they aren't. I've spent thousands keeping some of them on the road. I STILL like them, though, because they serve my needs. That's it.

"I still like and own domestics, but I don't do so thinking that they are perfect... because they aren't. I've spent thousands keeping some of them on the road. I STILL like them, though, because they serve my needs. That's it.'

I'm a mechanic, and I can assure you that anyone who spends "thousands" keeping a solidly built domestic vehicle on the road has not kept up with routine maintenance and headed off potential problems as they should. I've never spent over $800 on ANY domestic vehicle I've bought new. That includes many that made over 150,000 miles and one that made 240,000 miles. Any one of our three imports alone cost us more than that in less than 100,000 miles due to higher repair costs and the need for more frequent repairs.

"Your claims are both unlikely and an over-small sample"

And I suppose ONE used Ford with 200,000 miles on it and a 17 year old Tacoma is a LARGE sample??

"I'm a mechanic, and I can assure you that anyone who spends "thousands" keeping a solidly built domestic vehicle on the road has not kept up with routine maintenance and headed off potential problems as they should. I've never spent over $800 on ANY domestic vehicle I've bought new."

Thanks for the assurance. But your experience isn't universal and I can assure you that you are wrong. Now it could be that a guy who's handy with vehicles and doesn't need them for work like I have, wouldn't spend anything on labor. My costs included labor and they included items that aren't usually considered wear items that a person can "head off" Like my starter, for example. The total cost to replace it was over $900.

You got a bone in your crop about "the import crowd" and can't allow an actual domestic owner's experience, if it doesn't line up with yours, to get through without a challenge.

The fact is, I think I've traded comments with you before. I've owned this -- a 95 Chevy Sportvan 350 for about 10 years. It now has over 130,000 miles on it. It's been a fine vehicle -- but not perfect. I also owned a 2000 Toyota Tundra SR5 at the same time. The Tundra had approx 109,000 (or maybe 107,000...I can't remember for sure) miles on it when I sold it. It had a water pump go out that cost me +/-$500. There was also a dome light that I replaced that cost me $15. But the Toyota wasn't used for work regularly.

My Chevy van has had over $2500 of repairs including that $900 starter. It leaks oil out of the main seal and around the oil pan (but not too much). It uses approx a quart every +/-2000 miles. It had a power steering pump go out as well -- but it's all included in the $2500. It was maintained the same as my Tundra. I generally used Valvoline IOC because they also lubed the chassis at every oil change (15 lube points....they complained a lot). The steering is pretty "wandery" from wear in the steering knuckles. How should I have headed that off? All the lube points were lubed regularly.

Nevertheless I really like that van. It took me to the jobsite and back every day. It made me hundreds of thousands of dollars. And there were only a few times that it needed to spend a day getting professional TLC. Even today there are no foreign manufacturers making a full-sized van worth a crap. I'd buy that Chevy all over again. Prior to that, I owned a Ford extended van with a 460 and a leaky oil cooler. I fixed that and it served me well.

I have nothing against domestics. But any claim of perfection is based on politics, not reality. If guys would just spend their time talking about individual experiences rather than needing to make universal commentary about the automotive state of the world, this site would be far more useful. Unfortunately the politicians take over. It's too bad.

I've got to know how you spent $900 on replacing a starter.

"You assure me that I didn't maintain my van? I assure you that you drive a 79 Mary Kay special. I assure you that you aren't a mechanic. I assure you that you haven't owned ANY of the 30 or so domestics that you claim. See... I can make unfounded claims too."

No, I drive a 2007 Mustang, 2006 Fusion, 2003 GMC and 2001 Pontiac Grand Am at the moment. The total combined expenses for repairs on ALL FOUR thus far comes to $27. That is for front brake pads at 70,000 miles on the Pontiac ($17) and a light bulb ($10). That's it for all of them.

The starter (ESPECIALLY on a rear-drive domestic vehicle) is so simple to install (2 bolts and the wires) that my wife could do it. If you paid $900 it is no wonder that you are out "thousands" on your vehicles.

I've urged people to educate themselves on doing basic repairs for years. It can save tons of money (such as $800 on your starter, for instance). And we've actually owned nearly 40 vehicles in the past 30+ years, But some, such as our three very unreliable imports, weren't kept very long. We always own 3 or 4 vehicles at one time because I love driving different types of cars. My wife and I each currently own 2 each.

18:50. Is your story possible? Sure. Likely? Not a chance. I've never broken down in a Toyota, yet have broken down in all but ONE domestic vehicle I've owned" kinda vague comment.

When I read comments like this I shake my head over how vague they are. What age is the vehicles New,1 year,10 years 40 years old? What was the mileage when you acquired them? Did you have all new domestics and "graduated" to a Toyota or was the Toyota new and the others with high mileage many owners with probable neglect. How many new Toyotas are you referring to that none ever break? If its one or an isolated model how about saying your 1 year old Toyota with 5000 miles on it has not broken down yet?

If I had known it was the starter that was the problem, I wouldn't have needed the dealer to take a look at it. Obviously an extended G30 Chev Sportvan isn't a front drive (in fact its like driving a barge:) ), but your point is well taken. By the time they had called me, there would have been no way I could have done the work myself and still make it to work the following day.

You may think that I would have still been better off (I may have been) doing the work myself, but work was busy and I needed to get back rather than canceling work (I was a carpet installer and long-scheduled work was having to be rescheduled or given to other installers). Also the starter was new and surprisingly expensive -- I think they said it cost close to $600 (it must have been hand-made by nuns or something). I was just checking online and it looks like the starter would only cost me about $220. That is one wicked markup! So if that ratio holds true, $2500 is more like $800+ for parts alone. My Tundra likewise could have been fixed for about $120 (price I got online for a water pump+dome light.

Today I have a place in the country so no one cares what I do in my own yard. So now I do my own repairs on the van (my other two vehicles are still under warranty). But the van doesn't get driven much anymore.

But you need to remember that many people can't do repairs for themselves either because of work (like me) or lack of skill (I lack diagnostic skill, but can do most basic mechanical work). At that time I lived in an apartment complex that frowned on automotive work in the parking lot. So there was limited time and no good place to do the work.

Also the oil leaks aren't maintenance issues. You don't stuff cork into them. The loose steering isn't either - it was lubed at every oil change (I'm a believer in the 3000 mile interval). The power steering pump wasn't abused. Nor was the starter. There were a few other more minor issues too. These were all real problems. But seriously, the van was probably only out of service 3 days in 5 years. Dollars aren't the only way to measure reliability. In a job like mine where people emptied their homes so I could do my work, getting there was of paramount importance.

That's why I still say that, whether you want to count labor or not, that van served me well. It still was more than the Tundra for similar mileage. I liked it, but it wasn't perfect. What vehicle is (meant as a rhetorical question -- not a request for fishing tales)? I've known guys who had both more and less trouble with their trucks. As I said before, claims that any company or region only makes perfect vehicles is politics, not reality. And, yes, that includes the Japanese.

I have a Chevrolet High Top Conversion 350 Van myself and love it as well. Just put in a nice flat screen, DVD, large Duracell box, runs 7 hours with engine off etc instead of shelling out for repairs. I am upgrading mine... I found the starter discussed for under $140.00, part only, no labor.