2nd Mar 2007, 14:43

12:29; What kind of denial are you in?

My buddy's '06 Dodge Ram was just recalled for defective airbags AND SEATBELTS. Can you not google search the recall histories of the Big 3? Maybe you just don't want to see the truth.

I suppose you would call those recalls on the Dodge cosmetic? By the way, nobody cares who calls the Fusion a "best buy"; the Accord and Camry still have the highest sales numbers. Sorry to shoot that one down for you also.

3rd Mar 2007, 04:52

600,000 miles on a domestic? A quarter of a million miles on your Dodge? So what. Almost every Honda and Toyota out there does this; we expect it. I guess if your domestic made it that far then you would have to brag and consider yourself lucky. Do you want to see FACTUAL stories about high mileage (not fairytales made up by Big 3 owners)? Go look at the Honda CRX threads. 400,000 miles on them is pretty common. You must have heard about the one Ford in the universe that could accomplish that; although I'm sure it's exaggerated by about 200,000 miles.

3rd Mar 2007, 06:00

17:33 half way to the top? I bought my last Toyota in 2005 and now have new 2007 GM's...seems indicative that a lot of us staunch import only buyers are saying we are fed up. I bought my first new Toyota in 1977 a Celica GT. That was a well made auto and started a long ownership history. They were made better less volume and with more care. Imports were fine until recently in my opinion. My best years late 70's to late 99. So what is wrong? I was buying 2 at at a time and then saw quality diminish and get very expensive mechanically and breaking down. I'll look again in a few more years, but it will take an awful lot to get me back.

3rd Mar 2007, 07:17

I see, so now you need to explain to us all why the big three are in the financial straits they are in if "all we import buyers are switching to domestics".

3rd Mar 2007, 21:31

I spent 400 dollars on my Honda at 228,000 miles for a tune up. At 252,000 miles now I have not seen the mechanic for any repairs since the tune up in May.

4th Mar 2007, 06:03

What year is your Honda? Our point is look at the newest ones. My 2002 was my worse car ever... My 80-90's were fine.

4th Mar 2007, 10:21

Just because more people buy it, doesn't mean it's better. For decades Chrysler was in third place of the Big Three even though in my opinion they made better vehicles than Ford or Chevy. This was in the 1970s when Japanese cars were not even in the running as an option. I never had the problems in my Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler cars that other people complained about in their Ford or Chevy. Also, the interior features, styling, and comfort of the Chrysler, Dodge, and Plymouth seemed better than in the corresponding competition. And yet, people were locked into Ford or Chevy and would never consider Chrysler, until they finally were absorbed by Daimler-Benz. The reason why people buy things often comes down to psychology, not informed decisions about quality and value.

4th Mar 2007, 10:49

Yes it is a 1994 Honda, but our 1999 Honda Accord is just as reliable and we have found the same to be true with our friends and relatives with a 2002 and 2006 Accord. You've got to remember that the engine technology has not drastically changed. 1994 has a 2.2 and the 1999 has a 2.3...2006 has the 2.4... I have not seen much at all go wrong with these engines. This is just my experience. And if they are not as reliable as the 1994 I am sure not going to go out and buy a Pontiac G6 or a Ford Fusion...I'd still rather enjoy a nice Accord any day.

4th Mar 2007, 13:01

I've never seen a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic that went 200,000 miles without a new engine or transmission (or both).

4th Mar 2007, 13:06

The only Honda I ever had experience with was a 1989 Civic. It was total garbage and started falling apart at 40,000 (CV joints went out) and totally self destructed at just over 90,000 miles (engine blew). Old or new, I will NEVER own an import again!! NOT ONE of my domestics ever had a single problem before 100,000 miles.

4th Mar 2007, 15:01

People who used to make the mistake of buying Ford's and Chevy's are now smartly switching to Toyota and Honda. That's a fact. Any pie chart or graph showing sales will clearly illustrate this; the chart will be the same whether it's on the boardroom table in a Ford plant, or a Toyota plant. That's what stirred up the hornet's nest on this site. Big 3 owners know at heart that they're fighting a losing battle to Toyota and Honda, and they're upset about it, so they bash them. No real facts at all mind you, just b.s. ranting.

Ford, Chevy, and Dodge's reign is quickly coming to an end. They are outdated, inefficient, poor automakers. Toyota and Honda are far more progressive and have paved the way for the future with more fuel efficient vehicles, hybrids, and simply efficiency and performance in general. The Big 3 are slaves to their own outdated traditions, and it is burying them.

The problem is, a lot of Americans are also slaves to this same inefficient muscle-car mentality. So when they see a car like a Camry hybrid or a Honda Fit, they immediately reject it. These people are in the middle of a rude awakening, because these changes are unavoidable. We have to be concerned with oil consumption and carbon monoxide output. The Big 3 have miserably failed to change with the times, they are crumbling, and any attempt to stop it at this point would probably be too little too late.

5th Mar 2007, 08:16

Yes, for all the alleged complaints about imports, Road and Track did a big survey of Accord owners and virtually all of them said they had MINOR problems and would definitely buy an Accord (or Honda vehicle) again.

5th Mar 2007, 09:51

I had major Acura (Honda) problems... bought new GM's

I escaped the slave import overpriced mentality.

5th Mar 2007, 11:37

To 09:51: Congratulations on a wise decision. We switched to GM in 2003 for both our family cars and neither has had any problems at all. The build quality, ride and safety features are light years ahead of the imports.

5th Mar 2007, 12:46

"Slave import overpriced mentality"... that's a pretty dramatic way to say that you gave up a good car for a junk GM because you fell for their sales pitch. Oops. I guess you fell for the "100,000 mile warranty (you'll need it; they won't back it up), like a rock (stationary most of the time), American-made (not really), cowboy at sunset in his Silverado, disposable crap car mentality".

5th Mar 2007, 16:19

I am an ASE Master Technician and have had the pleasure (or displeasure) of working on many cars over the years. I have seen good and bad from both sides (domestic and import).

Many people argue that the imports are perfection of 4 wheels. I have to disagree.

Going back 15+ years ago the cars that Honda and Toyota were produced were significantly better than the vehicles that the domestics were offering. The 70's and 80's were absolutely horrible times here in the states. Recessions, oil embargo's, UAW strikes, etc really took their toll. You had the government implementing required safety features, the EPA mandating emissions laws and then CAFE standards (remember those?), then manufacturers trying everything to save weight, save energy, etc.

We were left with cars that were under engineered, inefficient and of poor quality. The Americans were always the innovators when it came to technology. The Europeans and Japanese copied it and improved on it. As a friend said; "You invent the wheel, we will make it rounder".

But this has been true. There were all kinds of articles about Toyota touring domestic assembly lines back in the 80's and early 90's. The famous one was them touring the Ford line in Georgia that built the Taurus and Sable as it was state of the art at the time and produced many vehicles. Toyota has been wanting for years to be able to up production to the level of GM and Ford and it now there.

The other issue that has hurt ALL the manufacturers is the competition for bringing new vehicles to market. Years ago, a vehicle could be in development for up to 5 years while all angles of the engineering were developed. GM used to do long term durability tests under all kinds of conditions. Now, cars are brought to production for start to finish in less than 18 months. The Japanese are just as guilty and it now shows. Another thing I see is all the gadgets and luxury trinkets added to the vehicles. Most are mainly for the domestic market. This has hurt many many manufacturers as well with quality glitches in the body control electronics.

Toyota and Honda have just as many safety and durability issues as GM, Ford and Chrysler. Currently, I see a tremendous amount of Toyota's losing engines at 40k and up due to sludging (or gelling as Toyota calls it). This was due to Toyota telling people to change the oil every 7500 miles and a bad crank case ventilation system. There is a campaign for this right now. That reminds me, imports don't usually use the word recall, they call it a "campaign". I can supply you with a huge list of import recalls and class action law suits if you would like.

Anyways, there are many people that prefer their imports, but talking to guys who work in the dealerships and seeing them first hand, I can tell you they are no better. They are resting on the quality of the cars they produced years ago. They break just like a domestic, the difference is they cost 2 to 3 times as much to repair.