18th Aug 2012, 08:17
Why not ask what the starting automotive salaries were in the Northeast vs those not relocating or new plants in the south. People will grab jobs to have one in the outlying areas. I am glad everyone sees all the prosperity they are envisioning. Between the Internet and a glut of small cars now available from many countries, it's more pronounced. Like it or not, I see more out of work than ever. Personally I see more value in Korean cars if you are dwelling on competition vs American models.
18th Aug 2012, 11:58
Thank you for taking the time to educate whoever posted the comment as to what a joint venture is. I didn't have the time or patience after reading it.
Funny how we have gotten way off-track regarding this review, but for some reason this thread is like a car wreck, and I can't just look away no matter how much I try.
18th Aug 2012, 14:56
Ans here we are again, with the most pointless argument on this site, of where a car is made, or what kind of car it really is under the skin.
Now we have people commenting with a Christmas list of obvious joint ventured cars, or comments of how long somebody has been in the industry, who think that their knowledge is being tested.
Is this worth it? No. Does it prove anything? No, but it does not change the fact that if somebody is loyal to a Chevy for example, they will keep buying one, not caring at all where it is built or what other foreign parts are under the hood... Some people could care less or don't even have a clue about it.
Keep up the good work guys.
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go drive my Town Car to do my everyday things; or is it a rebadged Grand Marquis, or is it an up scaled Crown Vic?... Who the hell cares!
18th Aug 2012, 16:39
Ford and GM: American-based. Money stays here.
Everything else: Foreign-based. Money goes to Germany, Japan, England or Italy.
I want my money going to U.S. companies. Send yours wherever you choose.
19th Aug 2012, 06:59
One of the considerations I have is to find a domestic vehicle built here. Personally I looked at 2012 Fords and liked them. Cars and their F Series trucks. Better styling and amenities. And it's American based.
I agree with the recent commenter. If I didn't get Ford, it would be a thorough upcoming 2013 domestic search. I typically do best seeing all vehicles at one shot at the major new model, large indoor auto shows at our convention centers. We have one the first week in October.
A quick way to tell the difference on the Lincoln comment, is to sit in one and look at the window sticker for openers. Then on Monday after work, we test drive and buy new ones. I have made a good living in America, and am not ready to give my money away when I can control its destination. I have nothing to do with Ford, but test drive one before buying a Toyota and see. The newest ones are pretty nice! I even think the truck styling is pretty hot now.
19th Aug 2012, 09:01
Well those "foreign" based dealerships aren't owned by, nor do the employ Martians. They are American run businesses who employ folks who live locally. Try to think about how many "US citizens" these dealerships employ instead of spending your life stressing over where these companies are based. Do you spend that much time stressing over who owns stock in the domestic manufacturers?
One last thing - Plenty of dealership owners, own multiple dealers, some of which sell domestics others imports.
By the way, I'm still waiting to hear where your watch was made, your VCR or DVD player, your TV, alarm clock, toaster etc.
19th Aug 2012, 10:03
Usually when you can't avoid looking at a car wreck on the road, it creates more problems, which is exactly what is happening here.
By the way, I do know what a joint venture is, thank you!
My whole point was (2 days ago) was that when Ford did own Volvo, they did not build, design or use any of their own tooling on them; same thing goes for GM and Opel back in the 70's, and Saab except for the 9-7x SUV.
Also comment 20:04 (the one you cherish so much), there is a flaw. The Dodge Stratus, Chrysler Cirrus and Plymouth Breeze are not joint ventures, they are 3 cars in the same family built by Chrysler for each division of the Chrysler corp.
20th Aug 2012, 11:17
9:01 so if there is an American equivalent, why not go that direction? I don't get the argument. Here's an example of the global economy. I am a supplier to a large domestic manufacturer that had 3 shifts for many years. The customer is now setting up a identical manufacturing facility in Poland building identical products. Now there has been downsizing and a reduction to only one shift at the domestic manufacturing plant.
So here you have employees that bought homes here, utilities etc. that are being replaced overseas. The company is global, but that doesn't mean anything to the workers downsized here. I guess some will argue it's better than closing entirely and putting everyone on the street.
A car or a truck is a high ticket item. There are some very nice 2012, almost 2013 domestic vehicles available of very high quality, styling and many amenities. My comment is to at least explore that opportunity. I use to buy one brand over and over. I may have not got the greatest deal doing so buying them. But reliability kept me, and a quality drop made me look elsewhere. Now the economy is an added inducement.
In the 80s with a very strong economy, I could care less where anything was made. Maybe my current purchases will help now. Some of us have seen many years of growth, raises etc. Now it seems one is honored to even have a full time job, and some a couple of part time ones to stay afloat. If there is a domestic product as an equivalent in quality, I am going that direction.
20th Aug 2012, 12:01
Seems like we're going in circles here, but at least the comments are fairly reasonable and constructive, which I appreciate.
First of all - Crown Vics and Lincoln Continentals are no longer made, hence no need to compare them to Camrys, especially when those who buy Camrys aren't looking for a full sized car to start with.
Secondly, as pointed out by a previous poster, and as countlessly mentioned here and elsewhere, in his/her words - taking up an isolationist stance in regards to cars is pointless, because pretty much ANY car made today is filled with parts from all over the world. Parts made by American, Japanese, Chinese, German, Brazilian, Canadian, French, and so on firms employing people earning a honest wage. The cars themselves are often engineered using an international effort. Many times there are either foreign or domestic labeled cars that use totally different platforms not developed by the parent company. If the only remaining argument is that the money stays in the US if you buy an American car, then that too isn't accurate, because a lot of that money is actually sent overseas to not only pay workers there, but to also setup manufacturing, design, and research facilities. That only leaves one fact which is that if you buy an American badged car, then the money goes to an American named company. So what. What possible correlation does that have to any direct individual? If someone works for a company - doesn't matter what nationality it is - why is it bad that they happen to earn a good living working for that firm?
Lastly, it's funny that even though much has been made of whether a factory is either in the US or overseas, in some ways that same attitude seems to pop up over whether the plant is not only in the US, but in the Northeast and Midwest where they "Aught to be". The assumption of course is that those who work in the South must be getting substandard wages and so on. As someone actually from there who knew people who did work in some of those plants, sorry - but those I knew were paid well and received good benefits. Besides - those plants are in the good'el US of A, so that's all that matters... right?