2008 Toyota Prius from North America - Comments

I'm old enough to remember the seventies, and that's why I'm not impressed with the Prius. I also know what kinds of cars are sold outside the US, and that makes me even less impressed with the Prius.

In the seventies we had a similar situation as we are experiencing now with increasing fuel prices. So all manufacturers had a focus on fuel consumption, because that's what the consumer wanted. Then the eighties came with lower oil prices and the economic boom, and nobody cares about the fuel consumption anymore. So the manufacturers turns their attention to performance cars, SUVs and trucks because there lays the money.

Now everybody wants econo cars again. It's an old story. My mother had 40-50 mpg cars almost 30 years ago, so what's so fantastic about the Prius? My mother had a Omni diesel and a Rabbit that were in the 50 mpg region. Even the 2.2 Omni she switched to because the Rabbit was too slow (and it really was slow), did close to 40 mpg.

The problem is that in the SUV or truck world of 20 mpg, people are swept away with mpg figures in the 40-50 region.

And if you look outside of the US, 40-50 or even 60 mpg is the rule rather than the exception, so why are the Prius so fantastic? Well, some manufacturers are starting to sell these cars in the US now so you'll see for yourself. Just look to the Jetta TDI. Faster, torqier, cheaper and better fuel economy than the Prius.

Or you can buy a Focus with manual transmission and run it on low friction synthetic oil and "eco" tires like the ones on the Prius (tried braking in the wet with the original Prius tires? it's low friction in every sense), drive it carefully and you'll get 40+ mpg.

Thank you 05:55, for writing a comment that finally speaks truthfully about these vehicles.

Current hybrids are a scam. Every ounce of energy utilized by current hybrids comes from the gasoline engine, except for regenerative braking. Then even with the regenerative braking, you cannot recover any more energy from decelerating than it would take to respectively accelerate back up to the same speed. That is assuming 100% energy conversion. But anybody who knows the first thing about engineering knows that 100% mechanical to electrical energy conversion is impossible, and there will be losses in the system.

If you want a Prius to get better gas mileage, especially on the highway, the best thing you can do is rip out all those heavy batteries and electric motors. All they do is add weight and hurt your fuel economy unless you are doing nothing but stop and go driving and recovering energy from the regenerative braking on a regular basis. For any normal (mixed city and highway) driving pattern, you'll pay more of a penalty carrying all that extra weight around over than any energy you recover with sporadic instances regenerative braking, or at absolute best break even. Take a look at a late 80's early 90's (non-hybrid) Geo Metro for instance; it gets better gas mileage than a Prius (50+ mpg for both city and highway). The hybrid manufacturers are hoping you forget about that.

Yet, If hybrid technology is MUCH improved (as opposed to the shoot-from-the-hip feel-good political scheme it is now), I think it can be beneficial. For instance, I like what GM is doing with the prospective Chevy Volt, which is a SERIES hybrid. That is, the gasoline engine is not coupled to the driveline, but a generator which charges a battery pack, and the wheels are driven exclusively by an electric motor. With this setup, the gasoline (or other combustible fuel) engine can run at constant speed at its optimal efficiency point, as opposed to existing hybrids' engines having to run at all speeds, where every respective RPM range is a compromise in efficiency.

The series hybrid can also be plugged in to a home outlet to charge the batteries, and the vehicle run exclusively on electric power for a period of time. But, whether or not you are cutting down on pollution or not will depend entirely on where the electrical power comes from. If it is coming from a fossil fuel plant running at 30% or less efficiency, guess what, you are not putting out any less pollution than you would be running a gasoline engine, which itself is only 25-30 percent efficient. In fact, depending upon the losses while converting the electrical energy to mechanical, and if the power plant is very dirty, you could even be putting out more pollution by plugging in than by using the gas engine. These are things the politicians and hybrid vehicle activists, who know nothing about energy conversion and seem to think you can make power out of thin air, do not take into account.

But, there are fossil fuel power plants now coming online with 50% or higher efficiency. With proper pollution control measures at the plant, plugging in a hybrid and driving electric can potentially produce less pollution than the gasoline engine. Better still, a hybrid plugged into a non polluting power source such as solar or wind will produce zero pollution. I think we can all agree that we should try to getting away from fossil fuels is a good thing. That, coupled with affordable battery technology, would be real progress, instead of today's completely useless hybrids.

In regards to the last two comments, the commentator referring the the 80's when you could buy a diesel VW Rabbit or Dodge Omni, well back then the restrictions on emissions was far less strict than they are today. The US has an emission standard that is roughly 6 times higher than in Europe where turbodiesels rein supreme. Hardly any of those vehicles are legal in the US.

There is the possibility that VW might be bringing their latest bluetech diesels here, but just like every other manufacture, these come with a premium price due to the additional technology required to make them "clean". The methods right now includes a newer fuel atomization process using piezo-electric injectors and various afterburn exhaust treatment systems that involves urea, hence requiring a new tank that has to be filled under the hood. This exhaust process reduces overall efficiency by 15% or more. So with the additional costs of having a diesel engine and the loss of efficiency, the more simplistic, more efficient diesel engines of the 80's aren't as viable. Hence the only current solution that is available at typical prices are hybrids, with Toyota and Honda first to make them available.

The second and latest response concerning how inefficient regenerative braking is, well the Prius doesn't simply use brakes alone to regenerate power. Braking is a generic term here, and the Prius regenerates electric power anytime you let your foot off of the accelerator. On a typical car, braking and coasting doesn't recoup any of that energy. Your engine will run slower, hence use less fuel. But in a Prius or other hybrid system, this energy is actually used along with the advantage of using less fuel per lower engine speeds.

The Prius also has a continuously variable transaxle, which also makes better efficient use of torque. Additionally, all of the power systems are engineered to use less power. The AC, heater, and other systems are low power. In the newer Prius, a large "thermos" holds hot radiator fluid for 2 days. A LOT of energy is wasted heating the engine up to efficient combustion levels. Having the thermos greatly speeds that process up. It also uses low friction, low profile tires. If you add all these little things up, it equals better fuel economy. As in 50MPG for the old Prius, and 55-60MPG for the newer model.

A new one comes out in 2010, which is the same time the Volt comes out. I'm interested to see how the Volt works and would be curious to see how well it sells. But one thing is for sure, and that is that hybrids and alternative drivetrains are what we have to use from here on out.

Very informative comment 11:49. I wrote the one above you about the regenerative braking.

That is a good point about the diesel emission control standards reducing their efficiency. As you are probably also aware, the new NOx standards for the gasoline engines also reduces efficiency by lowering combustion temperatures through increased EGR (which is how NOx is reduced), so to be fair, it is unlikely a gasoline vehicle, hybrid or not, would ever reach the fuel efficiencies of the sub-compacts of 15-20 years ago. So, I maintain we can thank the politicians for our vehicles getting decreased fuel economy today.

I am concerned about pollution and am not trying to imply we should now all start polluting with reckless abandon for the sake of bringing fuel economy back up. However, I used to inspect cars, and the old cars from the mid 80's and early 90's used to put out 0% CO and 0 PPM hydrocarbons. You cannot get any better than that. I never understood why we had to add all of these new restrictions, when the previous OBDI generation cars were already clean as can be.

I agree with you that there are benefits to hybrids. I just prefer a series architecture as opposed to a parallel architecture. You are correct that about the regenerative "braking" occurring any time you let off the gas, but it still produces magnetic drag from the generation process. Thus, if you let your foot off the gas on a level surface, you will decelerate at a higher rate than you would from regular coasting (albeit some of the drag will be offset from the low drag tires) and still not recover any more energy than it would take to accelerate back up to the speed you came down from.

So, if anybody thinks they are saving energy by taking your foot on and off the gas in a hybrid on a level surface, you are not. In fact, you are wasting it, because as I said in my previous comment, the mechanical to electrical energy conversion process is not 100% efficient. Now, when you encounter a good downhill run, I will grant you that you can have a positive net energy gain from the regenerative "braking", which is a good thing. However, by toting all of that heavy hybrid gear "up" the hill, it is also quite possible you might reach the point of diminishing returns as well.

At the end of the day, I still consider it to be good that we are exploring hybrid technology, even with as many shortcomings as I think it presently has. I just take extreme exception to how it was sold to the public. I get concerned, for instance, when I hear the hybrid manufacturers and clueless politicians making ridiculous claims about their gas mileage to unsuspecting people ready to pay huge premiums for these vehicles because of those very claims, when I know they are physically impossible.

I have owned a 2008 Prius since April 2008, and have driven it 10,000+ miles to date (Oct. 2008), and have found it to be very reliable and a fuel efficient car.

There are just two things a wish it had - 3" more in width and more lights on the controls.

Although it is rated 48 city and 45 road, I found this to be just the opposite. In the city, I get 49 - 52 and on the road, 54 - 62. I should mention that I drive a little slower than in the past. Usually on the road, if the speed limit is 65, I drive 58 to 62. In the city I stealth drive a lot, which helps. I have found that the mpg does decrease when it gets cold, but all cars do.

Both my wife and I think the car is great, and will buy another when the plug in battery charge comes out.

As far as some comments I read about the battery needing replaced after two years, this is not true. If you check, the battery is under warranty for 8 or 9 years or 100,000 miles. Toyota would not give such a warranty if lasts only two years.

I rented a philly car share Prius, and I fell in love with it, and at the gas station it only cost me $11.00 to fill the car, who knew I was green?

The seat-belt buzzer is a pain, but I remember it is there to remind me that I did not buckle my life saver.

It is a great city car with tons of space, and I love the way it looks, it is easy to drive and parking is a breeze, and when I tell my 74 year old aunt I'm renting a car, she says get the baby blue Prius, who knew she was green?

The brakes on the Prius are the best, the car can stop on a dime, and might I add I feel like I am in a big car when I drive the Prius.

I am smitten with the 2010 Prius, and cutting all costs to get one. Take care and buy a 2010 Prius.

I disagree with the European that mentioned the CV joints needing replacement for 60 euros in parts. He/she must of misunderstood. When they said the "transaxle" would cost three thousand dollars what they were talking about was the "transmission". On a front wheel drive car the axle and transmission are combined into one unit. So "transaxle" is equivalent to the noun "transmission". This is a common misconception world wide.