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Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-60, 61-75, 76-80
But not in the truck segment... the most popular vehicles sold in America. They lag far far behind.
To 7/5/07 16:03-
Well, since you asked Toyota lover, the Ford F-150 has been the best selling vehicle in America for 24 straight years, and the best selling truck in America for 29 straight years. This year will be no different. How is that for bragging rights? Despite what you may think in your dream world, domestic pickup owners are not heading down to the Toyota dealer in droves to trade for a Tundra. The sales numbers back this up. Your Tundra is still last in sales. And that is the bottom line.
As far as your comments about the big three losing billions, stay tuned this Summer to the contract negotiations with the UAW. The days are over when a UAW member is paid $25.00 an hour to sweep the assembly line floors. A contract has already been finalized with Delphi, where the wages were slashed to realistic levels. The big three will finally be on a level playing field with Toyota and Honda, who do not face the same union burden.
10:59...why wouldn't you want a recall on a defective import truck engine? My expectations are at a higher level....I need a powerful engine, strong transmission and rear to pull my boat. Imagine straining this engine with a tow load or dropping a rear. I could not accept this. Sorry; domestic full size 100,000 mile warranty is the only way to go in my situation.
12:26 Give it up. Toyota unquestionably makes more reliable, longer lasting engines than Ford or Chevy. I guess with a GM, you can hope your precious warranty will tow your trailer around. Meanwhile, the Toyota will still be on the road, running strong. Those are the facts.
12:26-
I never said whether I wanted a recall or not. I was simply stating a fact that there has not been a formal recall as of yet. It does seem like there should be one though, as they are guessing as to how many problem trucks are out there. I would hate to own one of them, as it would never be the same to me following an engine swap at a dealer.
I currently own a 2002 5.3 Chevy Silverado Z71 4WD extended cab. 86,000 miles on it. Towed my 23' center console all over Florida to go fishing.
Only 1 recall on steering column. No unplanned maintenace! No broken interior or exterior body parts.
Looking to get a new truck and have researched and test drove:
Nissan Titan: Good power, nice iterior, handling in the middle of the pack, limited choices, too boxy for me. Handling not as good as Toyota or Silverado, but better then Ford.
Ford F250: Good power, nice interior, but Nissan and Toyota seemed nicer. Based on price and feature seems like best value for dollar coming off the lot. Resale issue though. Low road noise, but handling was not up to par with other trucks on winding roads. note: I am biased against Ford's since I had problems with Probe and Aerostar in the past.
Toyota: Loved the room and interior design. Great handling on road and highway driving is NICE. Off road I noticed some rattling and just not as solid feeling as new Silverado or Ford. Was kinda bouncy actually. POWER-POWER-POWER...succckkkk, the sound of the gas going into the engine.
New Silverado: Interior improved over spartan past, but still lacking compared to other three. Exterior.. loved it, especially the reduced body gaps. The 6.0 engine is comparable to the others with not enough difference to matter. Not as "quick" in acceleration as the Toyota, but handled better on and off the road. Off-road. WOW, I had a blast. So much so I went to another dealer later on for another test drive (I should take the Ford to the same place to be fair since the off road test for the Ford was the sie of a rail road track).
Over all, I do like the new Chevy, but since I will be driving this truck 120 miles a day for 2.5 hours I want the interior comforts as well.
So.. My decision is based on:
Gas mileage - Chevy with the 5.3. Adequate power for my needs.
Handling - Based on highway, which is 95% of my driving. Edge to Toyota over Chevy.
Interior design - Toyota.
Exterior Looks - Chevy.. barely. But like Toyota, Ford as well. Nissan.. too boxy.
Price - Hmmm, Edmunds says Toyota much more expensive over time (gas and maint?). feature for feature current rebates makes Toyota more bang for the buck off the lot. Chevy is not offering much on rebates right now and I understand that they are not going to be aggressive with trying to offload 2007 inventory this August.
So, I think I will go with the Toyota IF I can find a dealer that does not try to play games which is what Toyota dealers are known for.
I have owned a 5.7 regular cab long bed Tundra since April. Before this I owned a F-150 reg cab long bed with I-6 that I drove for 16 years. Ford has better ride quality, but the Toyota outperforms the Ford in every other category. I may be premature in my assessment of the toyota, but so far I have no complaints. The 6 speed transmission makes this truck IMO. Gas mileage is actually better than I was getting in my old inline 6. My old Ford was a fairly reliable truck, I think I had 3 recalls on it over the first 5 years, all taken care of. Don't make much of the camshaft problem that only affected about 20 Tundras, Toyota has taken care of the problem. I feel I made a good decision in this new Toyota, only time will tell. In response to the comment about cost to drive in first five years, It has been fairly reasonable with the other three Toyota's that I have owned, usually just wear items, nothing major. Hope this helps alittle in your search for a pickup. One last thing to look at is the trade-in value of Toyota's compared to the big 3. Good luck!!
Thoughts based strictly on the largest of cabs - Toyota's crew max versus Ram 150 mega cab...
Priority 1 - large cab with plenty of room and comfort, with 2 growing boys, and personally growing up in a cramped hind-quarter of a 'crew-cab'. Basically the mega cab and crew max are a push.
Priority 2 - Functionality and build out. For this one just needs to sit in the rig, without a salesperson, and really take in all the amenities and engineering.
For cab size, Ford and Chevy/GM don't really have a comparable rig to the Dodge mega cab and Toyota's crew max.
Based on price and initial drive, I was sold on the Ram... tight, plenty of room, attractive, and since I only pull a 4000 lb utility trailer and 20' boat; no need for a diesel or 3/4 ton. Started shopping price and features among dealers here in the NW.
Literally stumbled onto the Toyota crew max 3 weeks into my search - after my wife reminded me of my earlier Toyota's (4 runner, FJ land cruiser - each with 200,000+ miles).
Stopped by a Toyota dealer en route to purchasing the Ram mega cab and the rest is history. No comparison in any aspect of the decision, and once again a proud (made in America this time) Toyota owner.
Price is deceptive... yes 3-4K more for comparable equipped rigs, however,... MANY standard features on the Toyota are options on others. Aside from the far superior engineering and basic ergonomics (the Dodge dashboard looked comparable to my 10 year old Suburban), the Toyota came standard with all towing features and much more. i.e. tow hooks, tow pack built into the frame, both 5/7 prong plugs, rear slip differential, etc... all standard. Fully retracting power window versus a shoe-box sized opening, modern dash and controls, tailgate features, power, speed, ride, and of course, reputation (not to mention my personal experience of 500,000 miles on 2 different Toyotas going back over 20 years,... the extra 3,000 dollars was a wash in added features, and in the long run a bargain.
Growing up in the midwest, it was always American or nothing, a simple choice of diehard ford or Chevy lovers. My recommendation to anyone truck shopping is to drop the foreign bias and attempt to really look at and feel each vehicle with open eyes. Now that the Tundra's are designed, engineered, manufactured in the USA, there are no more excuses.
Can't tell you enough how little of a comparison, and how easy my decision was... it was black and white to me, and I'm a truck idiot!
To all the blind Toyota lovers out there...
I've owned both Toyota and GM. My last three cars have been, in the following order from first to last:
1988 Olds Delta 88.
1991 Toyota Celica ST.
1995 Toyota Celica GT (with the Sports Package, which would have been designated as such with a "-S" next to the "GT" on the rear hatch had this car been registered in any country other than the U.S. that year.
The '88 Olds, which shared most drive train and engine (3800 V6) components with close Buick and Pontiac cousins, holds the most sentimental value in my mind and, I'm convinced would have outlasted the other two had my brother, whom I gave it to cuz he really needed a car, not crashed it multiple times. We finally retired it on account of structural damage. But that engine had 212,000 miles on it and did not burn any oil -- NOT A DROP. Just before very oil change, the level would be right at the top. I couldn't believe it, honestly, and I'm certain that engine could have gone another 200,000, even 300,000 miles.
The '91 Celica ST was great in its own right. Heck, I bought the thing with 210,000 miles on the odometer. I really wanted a manual (the other reason I readily transferred ownership of the Olds to my brother). That car was tight, for sure. And the engine always started. But man, did that thing eat oil. And, around 220,000, it began to blow a big cloud of blue smoke out the tailpipe every morning. So I began adding a whole quart of Lucas at every oil change. This cleared up the problem, although consumption continued essentially unabated. And finally, at 270,000 miles, even the Lucas couldn't stop the "morning blow." So, I gave the car to another relative (see a pattern here? lol...), my down-and-out aunt, who needed something that drove. With 24W-50 PLUS Lucas, she made it to 299,000 miles before totaling it in an accident (luckily, she was OK). A pang ent through me, as everyone was rooting for it to clear 300,000 miles. But, alas... that was the end, and a performance not nearly as stellar as the Olds'.
My current car, a '95 Celica GT (again, the Sports Package), has fared least well of the three. Sure, it shows 194,000 miles on the clock, but I've babied it. Here's ANOTHER Toyota that's blown blue smoke at start-up every morning. With this one, it started around 120,000 miles. To stop it, I first tried what I'd done with the '91, but Lucas alone proved inadequate. So, for the last nearly 80,000 miles, I've added a quart of Lucas AND a quart of "Restore 4-Cylinder Engine Formula" at every oil change, topping it off with regular 10W-30 or 10W-40, depending on the season. In the meantime, I had to dump $4,000 worth of repairs into it in May of last year, at around 170,000 miles. The only thing in that considered to be normal maintenance was the timing belt (a mere $350, or so, of the total) ; the rest was significant, including an almost completely rebuilt rear-end (new control arms, bushings, and struts -- and I've always taken care not to drive this car on dirt roads, etc., so that kind of repair was pretty uncalled for, in my opinion) and a bunch of other stuff that, frankly, I can't even remember.
And now my 95 GT's clutch seems ready to bite the bullet (the '91's was the original the whole time), we can't seem to get the front end quite right (still shakes on the highway, albeit it slightly, even after a tie-rod repair last month). I'm going to drive it to 200,000 miles, just to get a nice round number out of it before shopping for my next used car.
Because I enjoy standards so much, the next car may indeed be Japanese instead of domestic, but let me tell you all something I mean wholeheartedly: I have no qualms about buying a GM vehicle. Ford and Chrysler have never impressed me. My family has owned cars from all three; the Fords and Chryslers all seemed sub-par, but the GM vehicles always more than held their own against the Toyotas (and my friends' Hondas/Acuras).
I realize that a handful of GM offerings from earlier this decade were indeed lemons. That was an anomaly that has had the unfortunate effect of emboldening the knee-jerk domestic bashers to renew their efforts. I only hope GM will pull through. As I always ask people, don't you think it just might be a good idea, as a nation, for us to be able to make our own stuff?
I own a 2007 5.7L Tundra CrewMax that I picked up from the dealer on July 21, 2007. My truck now has just over 1000 miles and there have been absolutely no problems.
In January of 2000, I bought a new Chevy Silverado 5.3L 1500. In less than two months, I had lots of problems and the truck spent several days at the dealership, with me incurring rental car expenses. When that truck had less than 2500 miles, I was persuaded to trade in that 2000 Silverado for another 2000 Silverado (also a 5.3L 1500), at a cost of an additional $3500 + TT&L, in hopes that I would get a better truck the second time around.
The second Silverado had even more problems initially than the first Silverado. When I had owned the second Silverado for less than a month, I took it back to the dealer with 994 miles on it and they kept it for over two weeks trying to correct all of its problems. The dealer was nice enough to provide me a rental car at no charge during that two week period, which I appreciated.
Over the first year that I owned the second Silverado, I had to take it back to the dealer five more times for warranty work. Thankfully, I had a dealer who wanted to make the vehicle right and they finally did. (I just pulled all this information from the notebook that I maintained on the Silverado.)
I drove the 2000 Silverado for a total of seven years and three months (over 100,000 miles), and it turned out to be an excellent vehicle once all of its manufacturing defects were corrected.
I still think the 2000 Chevy Silverado was a great vehicle, especially the design and the engine and despite all the problems that I had, I remain convinced to this day that the 2000 Silverado 5.3L truck was the best truck on the market back in 2000. I considered a 2000 Tundra when I bought the Silverado, but thought then that the 2000 Silverado was quite a bit better than the 2000 Tundra and the 2000 F150.
However, in 2007, I looked hard at a new GMC Sierra, along with the Tundra and an F150. The GMC was very nice and, in many ways, I would have preferred to buy a domestic name, but there were two or three things about the GMC that just turned me off:
1. The pick-up bed on the GMC, in my opinion, is too elevated and way too much fender well is visible.
2. I didn't especially like the cylinder de-activation feature. I noticed it too much when accelerating.
3. I didn't like the fact that there wasn't a driver assist handle.
4. I thought a 2007 truck ought to have at least a five-speed transmission.
5. I wanted a floor shifter which GM didn't offer.
(I didn't consider a new Silverado because I didn't like the looks of its front-end. I did like the looks of the GMC front end.)
After ten weeks of intense studying and test driving, I decided that, in 2007, the Tundra was a little better than the GMC, although I think they are both very nice trucks. These are some of the reasons that I decided to buy the Tundra:
1. Lots of outstanding safety features, all standard equipment.
2. The 5.7 liter engine has unbelivable acceleration and smoothness, better than some sports cars that I have owned. I also liked the EPA mileage estimate of 16/20. All of my driving in the Tundra so far has been heavy city traffic and I am averaging 15.4 mpg. I think I will get at least 18-19 mpg on the highway, which will be comparable to what I got in my 2000 Silverado, despite the Tundra having a much larger engine and a lot more weight.
3. The Tundra ride is almost as good as the new GMC. The Tundra rides as well or better than the GMC on relatively smooth pavement and I think the interior of the Tundra may be a little quieter than the GMC at 70 mph.
4. The fit and the finish on my Tundra are impeccable.
5. Lots of little things on the Tundra are exceedingly well thought out such as the recessed and barely visible windshield cowling. The cowlings are, in my opinion, too visible on the GMC, Ford F150, & Dodge. Also the Tundra has a lot of interior stowage space.
6. Outstanding leg room and extraordinarily comfortable are good words to describe the rear seat area on the CrewMax.
7. Toyota's reputation for building relatively trouble free vehicles. I also liked the fact that the Tundra was designed and built in the USA, with a higher domestic content that many of its competitors.
The 2007 Tundra is the 22nd new vehicle that I have purchased over the last 48 years. It is not a perfect vehicle. There are several things that could be improved on it, but, overall, it is pretty wonderful.
The only other vehicle that I owned that never had to go back to the dealer for warranty work was a 1983 Olds Cutlass (a company car), which was also a wonderful automobile. Two other new cars that I purchased which were especially trouble prone were a 1981 Datsun Maxima and a 1986 Mercedes E300. These two were more trouble than my 2000 model Silverados, so I definitely am not automatically inclined to be pro-import. I try to buy a vehicle that performs well, looks good, and that, in my mind, represents good value for my hard-earned money.
As stated earlier, I now have over 1000 miles on my Tundra and have had it for just over five weeks. At approximately this same point back in 2000, I had lots of issues with both of the 2000 model Silverados that I owned. I am exceedingly pleased that, as of this moment, I have no issues with the Tundra. If I took it to the dealer tomorrow, I would have nothing at all for them to fix, which is good news because I find it highly irritating to have to return to the dealer with problems on a brand new vehicle.
I drive a 2007 Tundra CrewMax with the 5.7 liter engine.
Every day I am more impressed by this vehicle.
To me, the engine is stronger and the sheet metal is stronger than that on my previous vehicle, a 2000 Silverado. The Tundra also has features and innovations that make it unique. It has unbelievable safety features and incredible acceleration.
My 2000 Silverado was a wonderful vehicle, but it took a lot of trips to the dealer to make it right.
The Tundra is truly a remarkable vehicle, with no trips to the dealer, which I regard as truly remarkable after my experience with my 2000 Silverado.
I worked construction for a little while, and I never remember seeing a Tundra at any of the builder supplies we went to. The only thing I remember seeing were huge Ford Diesels and Chevys.
As someone who has been buying vehicles for well over 50 years, all I can say is that the Tundra is an incredibly well built vehicle.
I agree with one of the previous posters that there is no way that Ford and GM should have let Toyota catch up with them so quickly. I don't know if it is a statement about the ineptness of Ford and GM or a statement about how good Toyota is.
As someone who has always wanted to buy domestic where possible, it took quite a bit to have me buy a Tundra. But, after a great deal of research, it became evident to me that the Tundra was at least the equal of Ford and GM, if not better than Ford and GM.
Also, rather surprisingly, I found that the Toyota dealers seemed more interested in selling me a Tundra than Ford and GM dealers were in selling me their product. Probably the reason that I haven't bought a Toyota in the past was because I found Toyota dealers very difficult to deal with. However, this time, I found more than one Toyota dealer who was easy to deal with.
I am convinced that Toyota went out of their way to listen to pickup buyers when they designed the new Tundra. While I found both the Ford F150 and the GMC Sierra to be nice vehicles, I found even more nice things about the Tundra.
I can't decide whether the post about a Tundra being a Camry with a pickup bed was in jest or was serious. However, all I could think of was that if the bed were big enough, I could probably haul three or four Camrys with my Tundra. Equating a Tundra to a Camry has to be a joke, unless you are equating the quality.
Just bought an 02 Tundra, 167K. The V8 pulls great compared to my old 90 V6... my mileage has fluctuated from 16L/100k to 25L/100k pulling junk trailer from once every two weeks.. does this seem normal consumption?
The only other concern is a prominent knock whilst in second gear braking down hill... piston slap? I hope not.
Other than that, a nice truck.
I can't see why they don't build more diesels here... Europe has them from any size up... same as front load washers and ancient underground tramlines. We're still decades behind and catching up... Let's not get to far and patent H20... well what's new...
What Toyota has done with the Tundra is to create a significant challenger to Ford, GM & Chrysler. To me, it is remarkable that Toyota has wiped out what should have been a fifty year headstart and is at least dead even with Ford, GM & Chrysler half-ton pickups.
Having looked at all the full-size pick-ups, I think you would have a hard time going wrong with any of them. They are all nice vehicles and they all have their good points, so I think the choice mostly boils down to what you like and don't like about each of them.
The reasons I traded my Chevy Silverado for a Tundra were:
1. The GM pickups, for some inexplicable reason, don't have a driver side assist handle.
2. I thought the gravel shield on the front of the Chevys and Fords looked cheap.
3. I was afraid of the cylinder deactivation feature on the Chevys.
3. I didn't like the gas mileage on the 5.4L Ford engines.
4. I have a thing about roof top antennas, which both the Fords and the Chevys had.
5. I liked the way the tailgate operated on the Tundra, and I liked that it could be locked and unlocked with the ignition key.
6. I liked the acceleration of the 5.7L engine in the Tundra, and I especially liked the six-speed transmission in the Tundra.
7. I was impressed by the rear seat room in the Tundra CrewMax.
8. I was also impressed by all of the storage spaces in the Tundra.
9. I also liked the smooth ride of the Tundra, which was better than the Ford and was probably the equal of the GM's. I was also impressed with how quiet it was inside the Tundra at highway speeds.
10. I liked the overall fit and finish of the Tundra and I especially liked the comfort of the Liquicell seats.
My conclusion was that the Tundra looked like a pick-up, but had some of the qualities of a sports car.
All of this said, I still think the Ford F150 is the best looking of all of the pick-ups, both interior and exterior. I just wish it were more technologically up-to-date. I also like the looks of the new GMC pick-up, but I did not care for the looks of the front end of the new Silverados, and I especially disliked the height of the rear fender wells on both GM models.
I'm also glad the Tundra is built in the states. It shows that American workers can definitely build a quality vehicle. (My Chevy Silverado was built in Canada, and I know both Ford and Chrysler are building pickups in Mexico.)