1st Aug 2007, 13:09

Face it gas could be triple and Americans will not give up their passion for driving an automobile. Comparing 1980 vehicle experiences is certainly not relevant in 2007. Its ridiculous. I have paid $34,000 for my last new import with the hopes of having a very durable vehicle. Its not all about pricing, cost of fuel, but you certainly expect durability and a long warranty... my 2007 GM's are really great vehicles.

1st Aug 2007, 19:05

A Toyota that gets reasonable maintenance and is driven by anyone who is mechanically competent will practically always go at LEAST 300,000 miles.

I know an older guy that at one time owned his own fleet of taxi's, and he used mainly Corolla's. He said it was COMMON for them to get upwards of 3 and 400,000 miles before he retired them. I figured, who better to ask about vehicles. He was a business owner, dealt with cars every day, actually fixed them ALL himself, and he told me that over the years he has owned many of practically every kind of car that you can buy in the U.S.; he finally settled with Toyota's because, he simply said, "they run longer, and they cost less to keep on the road".

2nd Aug 2007, 17:33

16:55; Toyota outsells GM in the U.S. right now, and did when the comment was made. Your facts are incorrect. Granted, it was the first time in GM's 70-some year history that they were ever outsold in the U.S., but those days are over. Toyota surpassed them in sales early this year; in this country, and worldwide also. A small amount of research will show you this.

2nd Aug 2007, 17:35

17:05 I'm willing to bet that you don't 'trust' any magazine that states the obvious; Japanese vehicles are built better. This is a tired argument. They've been building better cars than anything made in the U.S. for the last 30 years.

3rd Aug 2007, 09:43

If they built another model like the 1977 Celica GT a direct copy of the Mustang body design a beautiful car... I would buy another. Til then the styling isn't at all appealing in my opinion. Need some sportier more youthful designs...

4th Aug 2007, 12:05

19:05...where are all the 70's Toyotas...rusted and gone? How much will it cost to keep a late model Toyota running after 36,000 miles to the average consumer at 300,000 miles? I ran at 50,000 miles.

4th Aug 2007, 13:51

Japanese cars of the '70s and early to mid '80s were out and out junk! People only bought them because they were cheap and got good mileage, and they were desperate during the time of the Arab oil embargo and years of recession that followed Carter and Reagan. They were rusted out within three years, and have been in the junkyards now for over 15 years.

Sure, Japanese cars got better by the late '80s, but they never have been able to imitate the style and comfort of the American cars.

Take the Corolla as the perfect example -- it's in the same league as a go-cart! Maybe it will run dependably for 150,000 miles -- any car nowadays will -- but who wants to drive a go-cart for that long? I'll tell you who -- people who have no choice, like broke teenagers, because they can't afford anything better.

4th Aug 2007, 14:56

Where are all the old Toyotas? Well not in America; you see they did not really start selling more cars until the early ninties etc.

Also take in mind the long design cycle of the American cars to the Japanese 4 year cycle. There are so many different Honda and Toyota designs out that it is hard to know how old they are.

It is funny that someone who knows nothing at all about cars thought my '87 Caprice was a 77! My friends 1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass looks like my cousins old 1982 Cutlass, which is now crushed and probably a Toyota.

Why so many American cars? Well it just happens that in the early eighties or so, Buick was the number three automaker, Chevrolet first, Ford second in car production. They were churning out millions of cars and this was before people started to get angry about the poor quality accelerated by cars like the K car, Citizen, GM diesel, Gm inline 4, etc.

My moms '82 Firebird looked hot in 1987, but sat in our yard because of a faulty engine gasket that GM would not replace at 80,000 miles. It was not owner neglect, for a family member at GM confirmed the defect on the Pontiac V6s.

There is no way to make any argument about GM's or Fords lasting longer. First of all we bought an 1987 Caprice with 20,000 miles just a few years back. I suspect that most of those clean, old GMs are close to the miles we have on ours, meaning that they barely ever got driven or anything.

Sorry, but economic situations are not going in the favor of the man who loves domestic cars.

5th Aug 2007, 20:57

14:56 Exactly right. It's nice to see that enough people are finally fed up with poor GM and Ford products and are now buying Toyota's and Honda's by the millions. It took too long.

Before anyone makes the inevitable comeback; let me say that I'm not 'anti-American'. (Our government is, but I'm not). I'm just 'anti-buying-a-piece-of junk' from Ford or GM. They can go out of business, and I don't care.

All of you domestic owners; realize this: not if, but when, GM and Ford eventually go under, it was their own fault. I don't have an ounce of pity for most of the workers either. Maybe if they cared enough to put the cars together correctly, they wouldn't have gotten themselves in this position. They've been overpaid for 40 years, considering the lack of effort put into their jobs. I'm sure some actually care about what they do, but obviously not enough of them.

Yeah, I know that GM uses junk material, and the workers have to deal with what they're given, but there's still no excuse for the rattling panels, missing bolts and screws, and general poor assembly.

6th Aug 2007, 09:44

A lot of people buy without economic consideration including BMW and Mercedes owners/high end. I prefer high end domestics with plenty of performance, handling, features and better warranty. I am not a victim of fuel expense. Also if you do not buy rock bottom, basic 4 cylinder oeverworked vehicles they last. I have also owned sports cars like your Firebird and would not have one if I was not able to keep it operational at all times. Sports cars cost more to run, insure, but are a lot of fun for a true auto enthusiast. I would buy a tiny low end economy import in that case and watch the gas needle.

6th Aug 2007, 13:30

Okay, from what I am getting to the only high end domestic "cars" (I mean "cars", because we are not going to bring trucks into this), are some Cadillacs. The CTS, STS are probably the only truly high-end GM cars and domestic cars around. Now how the heck do you think GM can keep itself in business by just selling Cadillacs? I am sorry, but there are not any other GM or Fords that are high-end unless you buy a Corvette or GT500.

Honda and Toyota succeed because they build nice cars like the Camry, Accord, Civic, and Corolla... not to mention all the other cars they build too that are better than any other domestic. Are you guys kidding? The Japanese only compete with each other and the Koreans and Germans. No domestic car is a threat to the Japanese auto industry.