24th Jan 2009, 06:58
"Toyotas are far better in reliability than any Chevy or Ford. Trust me, I've dealt with both"
No, I'd rather trust my experience with 30+ domestics and 3 imports over a 30-year period. No domestic EVER had an engine or transmission problem before 100,000 miles. Only one of our imports even MADE 100,000 miles. That's all the proof I need personally to continue buying domestics.
As for the incorrect argument that because a car is made in the U.S. it benefits the U.S. economy, no, it DOESN'T. Japanese companies pay far, far less in wages, offer virtually no benefits and all the profit goes outside the U.S. We buy domestic products not only because they are better, but because they benefit all U.S. citizens, including import buyers.
24th Jan 2009, 12:48
I agree with with 6:58. Late model imports have not held up well with us.
An even better comment is to buy new ones, track your own personal experience, and buy the next import or domestic from that.
I make them all work hard for my business as I buy. I never walk in import/domestic dealerships without buying something within a couple weeks of my quest either way. You know your household and what you spent on repairs more than anyone else. I do not agree saying a random edict on all makes and models by any mfr. as the best. It's how and where you drive, what you do and how meticulous you maintain dealer scheduled maintenance intervals.
Not changing the oil, driving erratic, not warming a car up etc. is a factor to consider as well. The car you just bought could have been abused or neglected and then you complain about it.
I go off new. My new ones I know their track record til I sell... in spite of that my late model Japanese imports have been a disappointment. Mid 90's before the reverse. Now I have new domestics (plural) and they are currently outstanding.
25th Jan 2009, 20:14
All domestics are junk in comparison to Toyota's. The Camry, any year at all, is a far superior car to any Ford, Chevy, or Dodge, as is any other vehicle that Toyota makes.
25th Jan 2009, 22:17
My family just added a Ford Fusion and a Lincoln MKZ to our stable of vehicles. They are essentially the exact same car (mom wanted the snob appeal of a Lincoln) and both are absolutely flawless. Even the Mercedes C-300 mom test drove didn't compare with EITHER car. New domestics are some of the best vehicles in the world.
3rd Feb 2009, 08:44
What I find strange is that so many Ford/GM owners are commenting on a Toyota thread. Have you actually owned any Toyota Camry? I think not, as your comments clearly indicate. Sadly, these kind of sites are taken over by people with their own agenda posting irrelevant information.
3rd Feb 2009, 10:42
#1 So... he had 33 vehicles in 30 years. It would seem unlikely that ANY of his vehicles made 100,000 miles before trade in.
#2 He doesn't tell us what model years these cars were.
#3 He doesn't tell us what model they were. For all we know they were 1989 Yugos.
#4 On other threads he makes this same claim except that he says that his domestics had NO problems... for 30 years.
#5 The 30 domestics are a significant number. The 3 "foreign" vehicles is not. 3 troublesome vehicles CAN be anomalous.
#6 We don't know how he uses his vehicles. Were they all used the same way? Were they all built for that kind of use?
#7 If he feels that way about the impact of foreign vehicles on our country and economy, why would he have even purchased the 3 that he claimed that he did?
Apart from these issues, I can certainly understand how, if a person had three troublesome imports and 30 reliable domestics, they would continue to do what is working for them. It is just too little info from an unknown source; The rest of us can only nod and say "Oh... OK --- Uh, rock on".
It may be more helpful if this guy would actually post reviews of these 33 vehicles and refer to them in his posts so we could see if those reviews comprise a reasonably credible and informative argument. Right now all you can get from his comment is: Domestic = Good; Import = Bad.
3rd Feb 2009, 10:57
Thank you. I've been writing similar posts everywhere I can. Reliability is no longer an import vs. domestic issue. These comment sections that devolve into that argument are a bit behind the times. Buy what you like and if you feel that you can't support a foreign manufacturer in good conscience... don't. You'll still have a good many excellent choices. If you would rather buy foreign and are suspicious of domestics, there are some very fine cars available to you. But neither foreign or domestic nameplates by themselves guarantee quality.
So watch the reliability ratings, test drive, determine what your needs are, and purchase with open eyes.
3rd Feb 2009, 11:23
My family has owned Toyota, Honda, Mazda and VW. They were some of the WORST vehicles we ever were cursed with. Even if our own industry did not need the business, we would still buy from American-owned companies.
Since 2006 we (including my mother) have bought 4 vehicles. All were Ford, all were flawless. With our country in the mess it is in economically, there is no way I could be so unpatriotic as to buy from a foreign owned company now, but considering our past (very BAD) experience with cars made by foreign-owned companies, we would buy from Ford or GM anyway.
Since Chrysler is selling to a foreign-owned company, it is no longer a "domestic" company either, though our previous Chryslers were so much better than our imports, there was no comparison.
3rd Feb 2009, 13:58
All my friends who have owned Toyota's have had nothing but problems with them. The new Malibu is a much better buy.
3rd Feb 2009, 17:35
Lets see we buy 2-3 new vehicles at a time over the 30 years discussed, which we have consistently done, not 1 at a time. It's not one a year as it's implied at least with us. I have actually driven and owned more personally since 1969. Our ratio however were more new GM domestics and over a dozen new Honda-Acuras. It may be harder to condemn or challenge a long term mixed import-domestic ownership. Compare same mileage vehicles, same drivers, repair costs and owning first hand, it gives the very best comparison level of all, and is the most telling on what to buy again.
3rd Feb 2009, 21:50
08:44 Exactly. If these Ford and Chevy owners actually owned a Toyota at some point, they'd never drive a Ford or Chevy again. Who would?
4th Feb 2009, 00:26
"#1 So... he had 33 vehicles in 30 years. It would seem unlikely that ANY of his vehicles made 100,000 miles before trade in."
I've REPEATEDLY stated time and time and time AGAIN, as a car enthusiast and mechanic, my family and I have ALWAYS owned AT LEAST 3 and often 4 cars (occasionally MORE) AT A TIME. Just like requests for frequency of repair records, this information never seems to sink in with the import crowd.
ALL of the vehicles we've owned have been METICULOUSLY serviced (I'm a MECHANIC, my FATHER was a mechanic) and driven in exactly the same manner.
A list of the cars my family (and me before I married) has owned is as follows:
1949 Ford Custom* Flathead 6
1950 Ford Custom* Flathead V-8
1951 Ford Custom* Flathead V-8
1959 Pontiac Bonneville Vista* 389 4-barrel
1960 Studebaker Lark* Flathead 6
1960 Dodge Seneca (Dart) ** 225 Slant 6
1965 Ford Falcon Sprint* 289 V-8
1966 Mustang* 289 V-8
1972 Plymouth Duster** 225 Slant 6
1972 Plymouth Duster* 318 V-8
1974 Ford Torino** 351 Cleveland
1975 Ford Granada*** 200 6
1976 Ford Mustang* 2.3 4
1977 Buick LaSabre*** 3.8 V-6
1980 Ford Mustang 2.3 4
1981 Ford Escort 4
1984 Dodge Shelby Daytona* 2.2 Turbo 4
1984 VW 4
1985 Ford Mustang LX** 5.0 V-8
1985 Mazda RX-7 Wankel rotary (i.e. a BOAT ANCHOR)
1988 Dodge Daytona* 2.6 silent-shaft 4
1990 Mustang LX 5.0 V-8
1990 Honda Civic 4
1990 Dodge Omni*** 2.2 non-turbo 4
1992 Toyota Celica* 4
1992 Ford Ranger 2.3 4
1993 Ford Ranger* 2.3 4
1994 Ford Ranger 2.3 4
1996 Ford Mustang V-6
1998 Ford Explorer* V-6
2001 Ford Explorer 4.0 V-6
2001 Ford Focus 4
2001 Dodge Dakota 4
2001 Pontiac Grand Am "Quad 4"
2003 GMC Envoy 275 hp. I-6
2006 Ford Ranger 3.0 V-6
2006 Ford Fusion 2.3 4
2007 Ford Mustang 4.0 V-6
2008 Lincoln MKZ 3.5 V-6.
The asterisks indicate hundreds of thousands of miles. I rounded off after 250,000 to 3 asterisks, but the 1975 Granada actually had 325,00+ miles when traded. You'll note the Toyota Celica DID make 100,000. It was not a bad car, but it was by NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION any more reliable than ANY of the domestics, and routine service and minor repairs were more expensive than the domestics.
Actually, this is MORE than 33, but I had to actually go back and count them up. The '49. '50 and '51 Fords, the '59 Pontiac, '60 Studebaker and '60 Dodge were all bought when I was a kid living at home (the '49 Ford was given to me by my mechanic father when I was 13). The first three Fords were all owned at pretty much the same time, and the ownership of the '59 Pontiac was also when I was in junior high. The Lark and Dodge I got when I was in senior high school. These were ALL bought used of course.
NONE of the domestics were sold or traded due to any mechanical problems. As you'll note, we no longer keep ANY of our cars over 100,000 miles. This is for two reasons:
1) We can now afford new cars whenever we get bored with what we have, and
2) We are semi-retired and drive much less now. We currently own 4 cars because I LIKE cars. That has been the case for well over 30 years.
The total repair bill on every domestic shown above would not be over a TOTAL of $3000. The repairs bills on the Mazda and Honda alone were that much. Now tell me why I need to waste my hard-earned American money sending it to a company based in Japan.