22nd Feb 2008, 15:45
"The manufacturing quality was simply sub-par and not anything that you will find on the Toyota lot."
That's true. It's impossible to see the sludge inside the Camry engine, or the failed transmission in the Odyssey while it's sitting on the lot.
22nd Feb 2008, 16:13
12:58... fit and finish is great I agree. But rather than merely walk around a used car lot, go to new dealerships and test drive the latest import/domestic pickups.
We could argue the weakness of the Tundra tailgate, lesser people capacity, handling, towing and carrying capacity as well as limited warranty. I would recommend drive the newest latest full size trucks and go with what performs, handles and rides the best. Drive 3 domestics and 3 imports and buy one; it's your money.
Pretty seats, cupholders and latches are great if that's your interest or go in with a comprehensive list of expectations and do not deviate from it.
My #1 need was strong towing capability and room for my family and then ride, performance warranty etc. Latches and paint jobs may have been far down my list and number 1 for you.
Test drive them hard and pick one is my best recommendation and commit to the best driver. I look at the bed, room and tow hitch, and if they are not needed, it simply equals a little economy car and no truck at all..............
22nd Feb 2008, 16:16
15:57 I'm proud to drive a Toyota because I know I made a better decision in buying one than some garbage Ford or GM. I could not care less which country any of them are made in. And if you want to go down that road, do your research first. My Toyota is more 'domestic' than many new Fords and Chevy's are. Look into it.
22nd Feb 2008, 20:22
12:58 was there a reason you would not drive your 200,000 mile plus archaic Toyota into the new new GM dealership to compare? I drove to new dealerships without hesitation; both import/domestic dealerships with checkbook in hand committed to the newest late model technology available and bought a 2008 Silverado. Go on a used lot and you can see repaints, body damage, paint chips, bed dents even shopping cart damage especially on pickups domestic or import... go look at 2008 full size pickups and then drive them extensively before knocking ones you haven't owned for 8-9 years. Many of us have and own late models, not the same old 90's import tirade.
23rd Feb 2008, 04:09
I have to agree. It's excellent. Toyotas recall of their early pickups, Campaign Vo6, happened. But they honored it... Many a new motor was installed. Many of those trucks are still on the road. There are countless forums, just for those pickups, mainly the SR5S. These older trucks are respected for their Quality. The recall was for faulty head gaskets. They rectified it, & many of these, thousands,??? are still on the road,& get sold quickly, when they come to market.
23rd Feb 2008, 06:26
16:16 as a full size truck commenter I am interested in what you are so specifically proud about? My so called garbage GM handles better, carries more in both people. loads better towing, better warranty... it's a truck, how is your truck better than these comments?
I strongly suspect my diesel pickup is more durable, better warranty and the ride is much better than any Toyota I have driven.
Are your comments off road based with the springy ride? You indicate that a gas engine is more durable than diesel? Go to a building supply any morning where are the Tundras? Commuting on the interstate?
My 2004 Silverado I traded at 80,000 miles only tires, brakes and fluid changes and it towed and hauled real loads. How much weight do you carry or tow on a routine basis? Fill us in as I would like to see how hard your engine/trans works besides on dirt.
23rd Feb 2008, 11:01
Let's face it. Few people ever drive ANY vehicle more than 100,000 miles these days except for companies. Our family's two companies use domestics (vans and trucks) only and often drive them 300,000 miles, but for personal use nowadays we seldom ever keep a vehicle for more than 100,000 miles. It just makes no sense to keep a vehicle much longer than that. We want new technology and safety features and newer styling.
In the past, when finances were tighter, our family did keep cars for 200,000 miles or more. Almost all of them were domestics and we never had any problem with any of them.
When I see these comments about a Japanese vehicle being "better", I can't fathom HOW it could be better. If NONE of our domestics ever had a problem, how do you get "better" than that?? Do Japanese vehicles miraculously grow new accessories?? I'd love to see a definition of just HOW a vehicle can be "better" than one that has absolutely ZERO problems. My one Dodge truck and 4 Ford trucks never had one single problem, so just how can you get "better" than perfect??
22nd Feb 2008, 12:58
Here we go again... more comments about how bad the new Tundra is as well as generalized statements about "domestics versus imports". Doesn't anyone think it is rather silly to group entirely different companies under a single umbrella? I understand why people do, which is basically just another way to say that American-made stuff is better than Imported stuff.
The problem is that the truth is more detailed than that and I don't think the nationalistic sentiment really helps to resolve anything since that for the most part, the Tundra and many other Toyota products were developed and engineered in the US, in some cases using former GM engineers. The truck is made in Texas and Indiana with parts sourced from American and offshore sources - just like most products produced by Ford, Chrysler, and GM.
The defect for the Tundra has been discussed numerous times and for some reason this problem gets blown out of proportion by the anti-import anything crowd. The problem were defective camshafts with faulty machining. These were installed on a small number of trucks in the early stages of manufacture for the new model. The problem has since been remedied long ago. Yet the cat calls about how "Toyota made a dud" persists despite the fact that all carmakers have had teething problems on many newly redesigned models. My 12 year old Tacoma had a recall in fact which involved replacing suspension components. 12 years later, it still runs without a problem and 220,000 miles.
Whether "domestics" are better or worse than "Imports" is almost impossible to gauge using such broad generalizations. If that be the case, then Mitsubishi, VW, BMW, Kia, and all the rest I assume are included. The quality of some of these like VW, Mitsubishi, and Kia is outright terrible. Some like Honda, Toyota, and even Nissan have fantastic reliability and reputable quality track records. Thus if we're talking this versus that, then you might as well be more specific.
All I'll say is that a few weeks ago I walked down to the local Chevy dealership near the diner I eat at. Out front was a 2007 Silverado on their used lot. Despite being of the generation of Chevy product that some of you all claim as being so vastly superior, the gas door, passenger door handle, and tailgate were misaligned. The gas door in particular was actually sunk into the body a good half inch. The lower portion of the body had serious orange peel. The truck was black, so it was highly noticeable. This is absolutely unacceptable on any vehicle of any age. The manufacturing quality was simply sub-par and not anything that you will find on the Toyota lot.