29th Dec 2009, 08:23
Mustangs have always been about the numbers as they outsell Camaros 3 to 1 on a regular basis. The new Camaro is the exception for now as it is the first in 8 years and really has attracted a lot of buyers.
What amazes me is the close 0-60 numbers they are achieving with the Mustang. Only 1/10th of a second slower and the GT is 111 less hp than the Camaro. If it makes 412 HP with the new 5.0 it will surely shave off at least 4 or 5 10ths. Even the GT500 isn't that much faster as it is too heavy.
I am thinking the lighter GT with over 400 hp will still give even a 556 HP Z-28 a good run for it's money... which will be at least $20K more than the GT I am sure. It will surely be a limited production car as well as the market for 556 HP cars isn't that high.
Is it fair to throw the ZR-1 into this argument? It is over $100K and has 638 HP, so it darn well better beat anything that costs less than half of its price. You could have just stuck with the base Corvette or the Z06 if you want to take any Mustang. Not really apples to apples though, as even those two cars are out of the Mustangs league, price wise... unless you factor in those crazy people that pay the 20% markup on Shelby Mustangs.
29th Dec 2009, 12:47
GM will never let for good marketing reasons the new Camaro surpass its big brother the Corvette, performance wise, and because of that Mustangs fans will have good reasons to argue with the Camaro/Mustang comparisons. The base Corvette has like the Camaro the LS3 engine with only 10 more HP, and the Corvette is geared 2.73 compared with 3.45 on the Camaro, even heavier, with that gear, Camaro should go faster!
And the big brother, even lighter, is faster by more than 5-6/10th on the quarter with only 10 HP advantage and a much lower gear!. I'm pretty sure that the new Camaro is potentially built and capable to be faster, but couldn't as it is "limited" by GM/Corvette standards. Which gives Mustangs chances to get closer or over. Now we will have to wait a faster base Corvette to get a faster base Camaro!.. LOL. Because we know that a supercharged Camaro won't be faster than a supercharged Corvette respecting standards. I think Ford thinks the same with their base Mustangs.
Maybe now with the new Mustang 5.0, GM will give the go for the Camaro to give its true potential and give another push to the Mustangs, with the same LS3 engine. But let's face it.. Over 400 HP! I think that's more than enough to have fun burning gas and very expensive tires, will this kind of war, which is fun I confess, will stop!, it's destroying our wallets! and I don't care about if Mustangs or Camaro are on the top, you like Mustangs! fine with me, but I prefer to be like the other guy, Vicious!...LOL.
29th Dec 2009, 15:57
Better revise your numbers guys.
In February Hemmings Muscle Magazine revealed that you can order from the dealer, backed with a 3-year/36,000 mile warranty, a Camaro powered with the famous LS7,427 from the Z06 'vette and good for high elevens in 1/4 mile.
Priced at 65,000 $ and built or transformed in Shenectady New-York, sorry for the new Mustang both the 5.0 or GT500 and the Saleen.
They're back in the time of the 60's when Yenko built Camaro with the 'vette 427 and by the history we saw with a Yenko, if you can afford the price tag it will sure be a deal and investment. Plus the crazy and fun time you'll have driving these beasts.
30th Dec 2009, 07:59
Yes and now, just as it was then, it will be a VERY limited number of cars, and they are most likely all going to be presold to collectors. As far as coming across one to race at a stop light? Not too likely.
Plus, again you are comparing apples to oranges, comparing a $65K Camaro to a $30K Mustang GT. If one were to put even half the difference into the Mustang, it would most likely match the performance of the Camaro. Just dropping a supercharger on that new 5.0 will give you well over 500 hp to play with, and you'd still have $10K to upgrade the suspension with.
Don't get me wrong. The Camaro LS7 is surely going to be an awesome car, but for street driving is it really ever going to be worth $65K + the horrendous markup American car dealers are notorious for? You'll never get one away from a dealer for much less than $80K to $90K. And where is GM's famous 100K mile warranty on that car?
30th Dec 2009, 11:54
In the late 60's, not only Yenko sold 427 powered Camaro, but also Baldwin and Dana, very limited and less than 400 in all were sold, and in '69 only, there was only 69 special Camaro with option called ZL-1, which consisted of all aluminum block/heads, cast iron sleeved, with headers. And this Camaro was able constantly to be in the area of 11.7 seconds in the quarter mile, like today's! And only collectors could afford the price tag, besides a lot better gas mileage and electronically controlled fuel injection, it is not that new block/heads engineered technology.
But at 65,000 today's dollars, this new Camaro ain't cheap, but for sure it's a very good deal, and I've read that they are building these Camaro at a rate of only 6-7 per day, and are already sold through upstate New-York Chevrolet dealers, and more than 1200 from all over US collectors orders have already been filled. For sure at this rate not much will be made, and sadly will be very limited. AT least we'll see more than 69 of them.
Aren't the "base" Camaro's warranty good for 100,000 miles compared to the base 60,000 miles from Ford on the Mustang.
Mustangs of any models, the GT, the new 5.0, the Saleen, the supercharged 5.4 GT500 with 540 HP, (which the new 5.0 will be around with a supercharger), if ever they build it, with also their huge mark-ups like any limited sports car are fine. But they never will be comparable like fruits, apples or oranges but in the same class whatever the price tag. Camaros have always been heavier and more expensive than Mustangs, and Mustangs owners have more fun knowing they paid less, and many of them pays huge mark-ups on aftermarket parts to customize their Mustang to be different looking or going faster.
But in the end a single model of Camaro LS7 or/and probably one day with the LS9 of/at any price tag with the help of Corvette engineers I confess, will beat any priced, any models, or any turbo/supercharged future Mustangs. And for now I believe it will be for many years to come. Sure if you use the price tag class, the Camaro is too expensive, but class for class performance wise the Camaro is way ahead. But Mustangs will still give us a good push and ride that we'll see from our rear view mirrors.
29th Dec 2009, 02:13
Camaros, Firebirds or Corvettes, with Chevy engines, always or many times gave the wake-up calls, or pushed Ford to be better, why they've waited so long!? (7 years before the Camaro return) to offer a pony car that is supposedly that good to their Mustang fans?
And by what I've read, they've anticipated or advanced in kind of panic by a year or two their new V-6 with ONE more horse power than the Camaro V-6 (oh boy!) and their new 5.0, which their engineers were pushed to get more than 400 HP, and we already know that it will probably be geared to beat the Camaro!?
When you think of it, if GM and Camaro still exist, it will be good for Mustang fans, if not, they will still have boring Mustangs. and we all know that an American performance car is only at its best with a Chevy engine! What Ford's do to follow, Chevy will always find a way to push them OUT or take the lead, and not with only one more HP!
Just hope that the waited Camaro Z28 is not around the corner and becomes Ford's engineers nightmare to build an affordable pony car, again!, because they already have their 5.4 supercharged engine in the GT500, I don't know if their Triton V10 s/c would fit in a Mustang!? Would it be their last hope!? Because the GT40 engine would make a Mustang too expensive. Camaro and Chevy rules!