Comments: 1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 46-53
Comment 10:32 again misses the point entirely. It doesn't matter if car companies build cars on the Moon or in Never-Never Land. The PERCENTAGE of U.S. workers who are employed by the Big Three (or in some job related to the Big Three) is 91% as of May 2009 (USA Today). The TOTAL U.S. citizens who work for German and Japanese companies in the U.S. totals a paltry NINE PERCENT. If you choose to buy a Japanese or German vehicle, you HURT 91% of U.S. citizens working in auto related jobs IN THE U.S. I can't fathom why this is such a hard thing to grasp. Buy Japanese cars, HURT 91% of U.S. auto related jobs, Buy Big Three, HELP 91% of U.S. auto related jobs.
Given the many Big Three's cars and parts are designed and made outside the US, I doubt that 91% of all American autoworkers are employed by the Big Three. This number, 91%, is not reliable.
Moreover, the manufacturing processes and labor costs of the Big Three are not efficient. Sooner or later, the Big Three and their new owners will have to downsize the labor force and improve the manufacturing processes. If the Big Three have been efficient, they would not have to go through the current much heralded financial problems.
People should have a choice of the car that they want to buy. Patriotism in consumptions of consumer goods is neither advocated by the US government nor the US legislatives because the US is still the strongest advocate of free trading and free market competition.
How about the thousands of suppliers, distributors, merchants, homeowners around a given former plant... they are not all from Japan. I saw many distributor and factory reps (as I was one of them) personally supporting our local plants with pneumatic and DC current controlled assembly systems, robotics, welding, paint reps, and many many others in addition. There were seating manufacturers and many other just in time suppliers required to be within a 30 minute radius. Also not from Japan.
In addition other merchants... such as local restaurants fed, others that clothed and housed these individuals spending and supporting the local economy with purchasing power... and not at rock bottom wages.
So now people are shopping more at Walmart etc. The decent wages are being replaced by lower or with minimum benefits. The homes in my neighborhood require a 6 figure income and I am somewhat concerned on who is going to buy mine someday. It's not going to be the $14 hour guy... in the end you can save or shave an immediate buck. The rest of us pay indirectly and directly to cover these decent jobs that were lost.
I do not get how ad hype can be so strong given the current state of the economy. One would think people would be fed up and want our own economy to bolster. It's time to get out of 1980 if your old car had an issue. Check out the 2009 domestics and go for a 100,000 mile warranty. I switched and it's working out quite well for us. We quit walking in buy another Honda, same dealer over and over never looking (at the time they were fine for us) and not even recognize what's new, what's better, what superior warranty is available. Maybe it may be quality concerns to prompt a switch, maybe it's the current economy and having an opportunity to make a difference today in 2009. I am tired of our country being beat up... I believe we have superior products that maybe more will take notice.
We are pleasantly surprised and saving on repairs on our imports. We always had domestics and I had company cars of varying makes and models as well. I took close note of our personal ones especially. Maybe your last import was great... ours was not. I am basing my comments after 2000... prior we were fine. Maybe others have noticed. One can read on Car Survey and go back in time vs. current to see if there are others to offer a guideline. In the end you have to weigh everyone not just yourself.....you might like to having more buying power and not cover many around your local area being forced out of work. I know too many, Driving an import in 2009 to me seems out of place...maybe others might feel the same finally.
"Lastly, only old people buy Buicks. Hardly a contender here."
This comment shows a lack of market understanding. Look at our demographics and see that we have an aging population. When people get older, they want a comfortable, quiet, smooth car to go cruising in, and Buick fits that bill. Also when people get older and can afford a better car, they want something better than some economy car that looks like a potato and sounds like a fart in a can.
"Given the many Big Three's cars and parts are designed and made outside the US, I doubt that 91% of all American autoworkers are employed by the Big Three. This number, 91%, is not reliable."
Yes, it IS. See the May 2009 issues of USA Today. I know people use lots of rationalizing to ease their consciouses when they turn their backs on U.S. workers, but please do not to try tampering with the facts. Import fans do enough of that as it is.
Seriously... if you really think Buick should keep on making cars for old people then you might as well write GM off as finished. GM has in fact for YEARS been trying to shed the image that Buick, Cadillac, and the late Oldsmobile had. Only recently has Cadillac successfully gotten rid of the old person image... only to replace it with the image that their cars are favored highly in the ghetto... thus they failed again. Buick as of late is still a joke.
Lastly- give it up with the whole "Support US workers" nonsense. My truck was made in the USA... yet it is a Japanese brand. In fact, I actually drive by the very factory it was made in every day on my way to work. I actually see the workers parked in the parking lot. Had I bought a US vehicle, chances are it would have been made in Mexico or Canada. If the argument really and truly is about supporting US workers, then I- like yourself- have succeeded except I know for fact mine was built with actual US workers. Who's more patriotic now?
I agree with the above comment. Stick a fork in GM, they're done. They don't even build any of their cars over here anymore!
"If the argument really and truly is about supporting US workers, then I- like yourself- have succeeded except I know for fact mine was built with actual US workers. Who's more patriotic now?"
Finally somebody who gets it.
"Lastly- give it up with the whole "Support US workers" nonsense. My truck was made in the USA... yet it is a Japanese brand. In fact, I actually drive by the very factory it was made in every day on my way to work. I actually see the workers parked in the parking lot. Had I bought a US vehicle, chances are it would have been made in Mexico or Canada. If the argument really and truly is about supporting US workers, then I- like yourself- have succeeded except I know for fact mine was built with actual US workers. Who's more patriotic now?"
SOMEBODY WHO GETS IT!! WOW!! He's right though. I currently own a 2008 Honda Civic, guess what, it was made in the USA. My last car, a 2003 Ford Windstar, was made in Canada! When you buy a domestic, the only people your helping is the rich corporate workers of the domestic companies. You're not helping the average Joe who would be working in the factory building the car.
Ummmm, I realize that Buick is a brand that is favored by and older generation, my parents included, but last time I checked, how many 18-30 year olds do you see driving Camrys??? I would say that 95% of people who drive Camry's are just as old as the Buick drivers... I'm 22, and I can tell you that I don't care how reliable a Camry is, I would not be caught dead in one. So can it with the "Old People" car argument.
Notice how you never get any response from domestic car owners when you bring up the argument of domestic cars not actually being made in the U.S...
I've owned two Camry's (both very good) and one Accord (not as pleased). It is a fact that the newer Camry's and Accord's are having some quality problems. Overall, I believe they are still good cars, but not as well built as the earlier models. My last vehicle purchase was a Mercury Sable, and so far I could not be more pleased. At the time I purchased it, I believe it was the best car for the money in its class. Time will tell to see if it holds up as well as my two Camry's.
I can immediately spot a questionable review when I see it. This is one of them. Here are some of the signs:
1. All kind of mysterious things happen to the car. And of course the dealer is non responsive. By 'mysterious' I mean a lot of symptoms that are almost 100% unlikely to happen to a nearly brand new car. You know, the kind of stuff that hardly even would happen to a 15 year old Probe (and they were seriously bad!)
2. The engine broke down just out of warranty. Heeey! You should get up to speed on Toyota warranties before you post information. Drivetrain warranty on Toyotas are 60 months/60,000 miles. The 36m/36K warranty is bumper to bumper. So if your engine blew at 37K, why did the 60K drivetrain warranty not cover it?
3. Cracked leather? When did you last see a one year car with cracked leather seats? Ehh, like never? Not very likely on any type of car.
4. Misaligned doors a near new Camry? How credible do you think this is? I HAVE NEVER SEEN MISALIGNED DOORS ON ANY NEAR NEW CAR REGARDLESS OF BRAND. And I've worked in the auto industry for 22 years.
5. And always the ending comment: I'd rather stick with my GM/Ford/whatever 'domestic' car.
Tell tales of just another questionable review. And of course the wolf pack of people thrash talking the Camry or just another Toyota saying "my Ford is better", "buying Toyota is unpatriotic", "my Buick ran a quadrillion miles with no problems".
"Notice how you never get any response from domestic car owners when you bring up the argument of domestic cars not actually being made in the U.S..."
OK, here's the argument, and it's been posted so many times I've lost count, so how you have managed to miss it is beyond me. I've cut and pasted this at least a dozen times and I'll KEEP cutting and pasting it until people finally READ IT.
The percentage of jobs in auto related fields in the U.S. provided by Japanese car companies is LESS THAN 10% of the total jobs REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE CARS ARE ASSEMBLED. It does not matter if Ford builds Fusions in Mexico or Toyota builds trucks in Mississippi. It's the PERCENTAGE that matters. 90% of U.S. workers in the auto industry in the U.S. are employed by Ford, Chrysler and GM. 10% are employed by ALL of the Japanese car companies COMBINED. When you buy a Honda that was made in the U.S. and sold in the U.S., you are still helping only TEN PERCENT of the people in this country who are in auto-related jobs. You are HURTING the other NINETY PERCENT...PERIOD. In addition, the money from sales of Japanese cars goes to JAPAN, not the U.S. except for dealers and salesman. It does NOTHING to help U.S. industry. Why people can't seem to understand this is hard to grasp. It doesn't get any simpler. Import buyers are basically using silly "It's built HERE" arguments to assuage their guilt for stabbing 90% of their neighbors in the back.
Our "Buy from American Industry" movement seems to be reaching even import owners here in SPITE of the misinformation put out by Japanese car companies and some import owners. Today I visited a local Ford dealership to see a friend who works there. He showed me three very recent trade-ins. One was a 2006 Honda Ridgeline. It was traded for a REAL truck, an Explorer Sport Trac. There was also a 2006 Acura and a 2007 Accord. Both had been traded for the higher-rated, more reliable Fusion. A spark of patriotism still burns in even a few import owners.
21st Aug 2009, 22:09, you're responding to my comment.
First of all, bring on that old rhetoric all you want. I feel no guilt for owning a Honda. If you domestic lovers didn't want competition, you should've done something about it when Honda and Toyota came to the states in 60's and 70's. Honda and Toyota didn't get to the point they are at now by building crap cars. Face it, they obviously build some pretty good cars if people keep on buying them. Just read all of the reviews on here with happy Honda-Toyota customers! At least 95% of them are pleased with their vehicles!!
And the domestic car companies DO NOT build most of there models here in the states! You can try saying that the money spent when buying a domestic vehicle helps U.S. workers, but who is it really helping? It's just being put into enormous bonuses for the CEO's of the Big 3. Whereas you beloved Fusion is built in Canada, most of the Accords sold here are built in the U.S. You can help your local mechanic by buying a domestic vehicle though, he will be more than happy to fix all of its problems when it reaches the end of the line at 100,000 miles when it's warranty runs out.